Badass Versus Thread

[Tobias]

Basically is ORT heard the earth’s distress beacon, stopped by to take a look, found out she was to early so figured she would just have a little nap.

another ancestor, a member of the top ten (actually may be even one of the six, I don’t remember) decided to take offense to this and went down to the crystal forest intending to go “THIS IS MAH HOUSE!”

ORT responded by casually one shotting the fool in seconds and then laid back to sleep. The other vampires collectively decided that they wouldn’t have to do anything about ORT if they just named her as one their own. Essentially she was named to the 27 because the others are scared shitless of her.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

this make comparing servants and DAA worthless

There are also mixed worlds, like FSF, so the comparison is still worth making.

[Zurvan]

Essentially she was named to the 27 because the others are scared shitless of her.

Well, wouldn't you be too if one of your strongest friends got ate after he punched some crystal-y blob with janky-ass legs really, really hard (read, did some very powerful move)

(hi, this is hypothetical, don't quote me)

[Tobias]

Another, more pertinent way to understand the difference between ORT-chan and...well, pretty much anything else, really, is that a type is by definition the strongest thing a planet can create. Earth’s attempt to create a type went tits up (we are about to get more into that in a second) and so earth slummed it with the primordial image of earth (arc).

There has actually been some speculation that Gil was originally intended to be a type and he rejected the job. This is highly debatable but let’s go with it a sec. to put that another way, even in a best case scenario, even Gilgamesh would just be approaching ORT’s power on a roughly even footing. And that would be Gil at absolute max seriousness using all of his power and abilities to their absolute strongest level

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Why couldn't we just get some uber-dinosaur as our Type or something?

I get there's the whole thing of Earth not needing a king until humans came around, but still...

[Lily Emilio]

but if you try to argue there is no comparison then that is just straight up wrong.

No, I am saying that the comparison holds no real weight simply because it had no specific details. What type of servant that was being compared to, what type/rank of NPs...etc. That + the poor chap who got offed we knew nothing about too. It would've been clearer if the comparison was similar to the comparison used for Gil or 9 tailed Tamamo, but we have none of that.

[Tobias]

Actually average servant was defined. It’s a servant with decent stats and a B rank direct damage phantasm.

That’s what a standard DAA compares to. The top 10 will be significantly stronger.

[Lily Emilio]

So the comparison is simply on basic stuffs like stats and standard fire power, not counting skills, NPs, haxes and conceptual stuffs. Therefore we still have nothing to work with.

[Tobias]

Uh, yeah we do. It’s a servant with a decent nuke and can hold his own in a fight. Stop being obtuse. The vs even directly covers skills and conceptual points. Specifically, as I said a while back, as the comparison between each will be roughly equal, it will come down to which of the two’s conceptual abilities has an edge over the other, as there won’t be a difference in direct power or ability levels.

Generally a coin flip with maybe a 5% advantage on the servant side.

again, you are straight up wrong, we do have a pretty decent idea of the comparisons between the two.

[Ronove]

Also worth mentioning that DAAs differ heavily from servants in that a bunch of them are just really hard to kill instead of having big nukes or generally high stats. Vague statements like being equal to a non-specified servant isn't helping for comparisons.

[Lily Emilio]

Uh, yeah we do. It’s a servant with a decent nuke and can hold his own in a fight. Stop being obtuse. The vs even directly covers skills and conceptual points. Specifically, as I said a while back, as the comparison between each will be roughly equal, it will come down to which of the two’s conceptual abilities has an edge over the other, as there won’t be a difference in direct power or ability levels.

Generally a coin flip with maybe a 5% advantage on the servant side.

again, you are straight up wrong, we do have a pretty decent idea of the comparisons between the two.

No we don't. The statement boiled down to "all compatibility". You can say whatever you want about how they are very close if they fight each other, but that is irrelevant because it doesn't mean a servant like Gil or Karna...etc will use the exact same fighting tactic or method that one DAA used against ORT. Just because ORT 1 shot this one dude that might be comparable to a high tier servant doesn't mean an actual servant will suffer the same fate when fighting ORT, because they all have different abilities. You were using only the most bare bones to generalize the whole thing, and that is the problem with your logic.

Do I believe ORT can kill servants? Yes. Do I believe ORT will kill servants just like he did to that one DAA we knew jackshit about? No.

[Zurvan]

I dunno about you toby, but Servant A having a B rank NP that can fight alright doesn't actually help much for comparing the top dogs for either group

lets take Karna, that doesnt just have a Anti-divine Nuke, but before using it laughs at your damage by reducing it to a tenth
or lets take Gil, who laughs at everything if he's hypothetically serious and just grabs whatever borks you up real good with his infinite toolbox
or lets take Herk, who screams at you after he died once and OMG he's not dead and he's even harder to kill wtf is this

average servant doesnt imply anything near those levels, nor do we know about the top dogs of the DAA, or the poor bloke that decided to attack Ort-tan

all I'm going to say on this VS (what was this about anyway) is what I've said twice before, we talking big bois we simply don't know enough about, best you can do is throw speculation

[SpoonyViking]

Actually since I'm not sure you are aware, are you aware that Roa in Fate was killed by Dantes

Do we know how strong this version of Roa was? The one in the novel was a pushover compared to Nero Chaos.

[Mcjon01]

Actually average servant was defined. It’s a servant with decent stats and a B rank direct damage phantasm.

That’s what a standard DAA compares to. The top 10 will be significantly stronger.

I’m pretty sure it was noted somewhere that the list isn’t actually ordered with strength in mind, and the first ten spaces aren’t stronger they’re just said to be unkillable by normal concepts (because everyone forgot about TATARI or something I guess).

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Well Roa need time before he can get his former power. I doubt Roa in Tsukihime is on DAA level, I mean yeah he got that crazy generation but he only manage killing a dying Arc

[Tobias]

I dunno about you toby, but Servant A having a B rank NP that can fight alright doesn't actually help much for comparing the top dogs for either group

lets take Karna, that doesnt just have a Anti-divine Nuke, but before using it laughs at your damage by reducing it to a tenth
or lets take Gil, who laughs at everything if he's hypothetically serious and just grabs whatever borks you up real good with his infinite toolbox
or lets take Herk, who screams at you after he died once and OMG he's not dead and he's even harder to kill wtf is this

average servant doesnt imply anything near those levels, nor do we know about the top dogs of the DAA, or the poor bloke that decided to attack Ort-tan

all I'm going to say on this VS (what was this about anyway) is what I've said twice before, we talking big bois we simply don't know enough about, best you can do is throw speculation

I mean if you want to throw super power leveled abilities around, again, ORTs floor, as in someone she is definitely equal if not stronger then, is arcuied brunestud. As ORT is an actual Type and arc was a failed attempt at such.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

I dunno about you toby, but Servant A having a B rank NP that can fight alright doesn't actually help much for comparing the top dogs for either group

lets take Karna, that doesnt just have a Anti-divine Nuke, but before using it laughs at your damage by reducing it to a tenth
or lets take Gil, who laughs at everything if he's hypothetically serious and just grabs whatever borks you up real good with his infinite toolbox
or lets take Herk, who screams at you after he died once and OMG he's not dead and he's even harder to kill wtf is this

average servant doesnt imply anything near those levels, nor do we know about the top dogs of the DAA, or the poor bloke that decided to attack Ort-tan

all I'm going to say on this VS (what was this about anyway) is what I've said twice before, we talking big bois we simply don't know enough about, best you can do is throw speculation

Thanks
That what I'm trying to say. Comparison to average servant is worthless cuz each of them can do different things and tactics that make them able to overpower stronger enemy raw power wise

[Lily Emilio]

Also I don't think all Types are born equal. You have the Moon guy losing to wizard. The Jupiter thing fought a team of Ether Liners then got cut in half. Cute Venus got headshotted....etc. Their abilities can have vast different characteristics, range, applications.

And we did have a recent example of a Type-like being as well. I would argue bunny titan has an edge over ORT even. Her physical abilities are almost exactly the same as ORT with no concept of death, must be destroyed physically, bone structure can withstand heat of a star, can contaminate the place she's roaming with void cells, immune to nearly all attacks including concepts. Big deal, hit her with beam sword or lightning spear that a servant can hold, problem solved.

[Tobias]

Not all types are created equal, but they are all over and above what the earth was capable of doing, hence the arch-type instead.

[Lily Emilio]

Earth being unable to make a Type has nothing to do with being with weaker base stats capable of oneshotting a Type. That's the reason I brought up examples of Types got taken down by individuals that are by all means not even close to a fraction of physical and destructive power as one, but they have dem toys to do the job.