Badass Versus Thread

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

Point 3 is pretty ridiculous. I haven't seen Saber increase her attacks' power through bullshit skill like Karna has, and thinking that Achilles or Karna can't be on par with or even better than Cu is very strange. All are great warriors with the former 2 having much better skill feats than the latter.

It's almost as if skill, strength, and weapon quality were mentioned as factors when Karna vs Siegried was written. Artoria against Herc, for instance, was using invisible air, which is inferior to her own sword. If you're holding strongly to the A-rank attack bit, need I bring up that it was made abundantly clear that Artoria can hurt Herc despite her B-rank strength in the UBW route? Karna had the better weapon. Even if you try to say that was due to ME burst, Karna's is on 24/7. You can thank Extella link for that one.

Oh, so Cu's skill accolade got repeated in Hollow Ataraxia for now reason? K.

Point 4 also relies on assumptions unsupported by the text (where does Ea get boosts from other NPs?) and I don't know why you'd post it at all.

Not really an assumption unsupported by text if it's literally in Enuma Elish's profile in the first work in the series ever. It's bizarre that you'd make such a statement.

[Tobias]

I imagine the hypothetical fully-unsealed Excalibur would beat Vasavi Shakti, but the regular version? Yeah, that seems like a big stretch. That said, Saber wouldn't need to go for a clash of NPs, seeing as how Vasavi Shakti can't break through Avalon's perfect defense.

yup. That’s the whole point. VS against Excalibur would never happen in the first place. This is where karna’s affinity problem screws him over. Avalon’s normal boost trumps his armor, excalibur trumps every NP that isn’t VS and Avalon’s activation trumps VS.

he doesn’t really have a plausible path to win. But that’s because of affinity, not because one is markedly more powerful then the other.

[AAM1232]

It's almost as if skill, strength, and weapon quality were mentioned as factors when Karna vs Siegried was written. Artoria against Herc, for instance, was using invisible air, which is inferior to her own sword. If you're holding strongly to the A-rank attack bit, need I bring up that it was made abundantly clear that Artoria can hurt Herc despite her B-rank strength in the UBW route? Karna had the better weapon. Even if you try to say that was due to ME burst, Karna's is on 24/7. You can thank Extella link for that one.

Oh, so Cu's skill accolade got repeated in Hollow Ataraxia for now reason? K.


Not really an assumption unsupported by text if it's literally in Enuma Elish's profile in the first work in the series ever. It's bizarre that you'd make such a statement.

I mean nothing you've said shows Saber being more skilled than Karna in any meaningful manner. So again, ridiculous leaps of logic being made to pretend that Saber can outskill Karna or that they are even.

[Menwearpink]

Point 3 is pretty ridiculous. I haven't seen Saber increase her attacks' power through bullshit skill like Karna has, and thinking that Achilles or Karna can't be on par with or even better than Cu is very strange. All are great warriors with the former 2 having much better skill feats than the latter.

I think trying to argue that they can be all that much higher than Cu is downselling the Hound of Ulster hard.

As far as Artie not having any feats of hitting harder from pure skill one could chalk it up to the fact that she's strong enough to not require weird wank like that :^)

All in all I'd say that without Avalon, Artoria is a very fair fight for Karna. With Avalon he's shit out of luck.

[AAM1232]

I don't think they're that much better, just that they're like Lancelot to Artoria better. Even I don't think Lancelot's like 100 times better, but he's definitely not on her level in terms of skill, and this applies to Achilles/Karna vs Cu as well.

I mean Kojirou is weak as well, doesn't exactly make him much less skilled. Which is what was being debated in Point 3.

Overall, Avalon is a insta win for Seiba, but without it I'd favour Karna's set over hers by a bit. That's just my thoughts, where we disagree probably.

[Menwearpink]

I don't think they're that much better, just that they're like Lancelot to Artoria better. Even I don't think Lancelot's like 100 times better, but he's definitely not on her level in terms of skill, and this applies to Achilles/Karna vs Cu as well.

I mean Kojirou is weak as well, doesn't exactly make him much less skilled. Which is what was being debated in Point 3.

Overall, Avalon is a insta win for Seiba, but without it I'd favour Karna's set over hers by a bit. That's just my thoughts, where we disagree probably.

She’s gonna be better in a slug fight because her prana burst is better for overall fighting and defense, plus instinct and superior stats. In a nuke off it probably comes down to masters or pretty close to equal. Otherwise despite comparable performance she’s more efficient in energy too. Karna’s honestly what I call a one trick pony which makes him powerful, but not great? He either can bulldoze something or he can’t before his chest crystal begins to beep like Ultraman running out of energy.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Karna trumph Arthuria. The end. Doubt Mini excalibur can hurt Karna
excalibur? Brahmastra Kundala, Vasavi Shakti

Avalon regeneration? BK until she become ash

You know why Fake Siegfried can survive? Invincibility

Relying Regen mean that the enemy can still hurt you and lets see how much Arthuria can tank hits

I never seen full powered Arhturia fight, most of it is because Shirou a bad master limiting her magical energy
Or unfair circumtances like get unlimited magical energy from the grail

Oh one time is beating a vanishing Kojiro with a bent sword. Clap clap achievement
The only time she is memorable is when she excaliblast things

[Hakuno]

>Survives a direct hit from Enuma Elish with the passive regeneration
Yeah yeah, KB will destroy her because that attack it maybe ten times stronger than Ea

A mini Excalibeam killed a demigod with a natural defense so high to tank the destruction caused by Caladbolg (unless now protecting from a direct hit makes the whole thing a rank lower). So why according to you it shouldn't be able to do any damage to Karna?

And yes, enduring the damage because of that regeneration allows her to use that chance to do a direct hit with her own weapon

[Wandering Swordwoman]

It will if she get a direct hit
Direct hit? Gil was holding back and the impact was lessen by excalibur before hitting her so it's not direct hit
Mini excalibeam that only to make her "having no mana from Shirou need to fuck" circumtances unclear and inconsistent

[Hakuno]

In the temple, yes, she didn't have time to use Excalibur at full power to answer against that, and only 'offset a bit'. While still blocking GoB


Sure

[Tobias]

Avalon regeneration? BK until she become ash

this is where you went wrong. well you went wrong in several places but this is one of the bigger ones. BK is weaker then excalibur

Karna only has one attack strong enough and power enough to kill saber. eventually he would have to try using it, and that would end with his defeat.

Karna's is an over all very powerful servant but he isnt built to beat someone who has better defenses then he himself has.

[Ronove]

Karna trumph Arthuria. The end. Doubt Mini excalibur can hurt Karna excalibur? Brahmastra Kundala, Vasavi Shakti

Good joke. You could a make damn strong argument for Excalibur offsetting or neutralizing VS. Brahmastra can't even beat out Balmung.

[SpoonyViking]

The current matchup was Extella Karna and Artoria (+Avalon) so magical energy isn't a problem.

Ah, my bad!

[Menwearpink]

If it's Extra Karna using his more area of effect VS, wouldn't it probably lose to Excalibur or at most cancel it out.

Also makes you think if VS has an A++ and a EX mode, could Excalibur reach EX by focusing really tightly to attack just one person too? Really tight beams = power?

[Rafflesiac]

No, only Arthur gets EXcalibur. Saber can sit in the corner with A++.

[Tobias]

If it's Extra Karna using his more area of effect VS, wouldn't it probably lose to Excalibur or at most cancel it out.

Also makes you think if VS has an A++ and a EX mode, could Excalibur reach EX by focusing really tightly to attack just one person too? Really tight beams = power?

well two things, one, while excalibur probably does have an EX mode with all seals released, its not fair to assume saber she can access it here

and Two, saber actually has such an edge in this fight i am deliberately ignoring several theoreticals, factors in saber’s favor and am also highballing karna’s martial advantages here to ensure I don’t get written off for just being a saber fan.

[SpoonyViking]

Yeah, Saber who's not being held back by her Master is already a powerhouse on her own, Avalon just makes her all kinds of broken.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Never really take that "if saber in full power, she can even overwhelm Herc" seriously

[Bugs]

Well, she could just sit there and let him beat on Avalon for all eternity, and that's without hitting back.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Good joke. You could a make damn strong argument for Excalibur offsetting or neutralizing VS. Brahmastra can't even beat out Balmung.

Good joke that anti fotress can deal with Anti God weapon
But I assume it'll be just like Gil vs Saber again if avalon activated when Ex and VS clashed.
I Forgot that Karna need to take off his armor lol