I don’t even think it would come up but yeah it is worth noting that even if karna got like 4 natural twenties in a row and out damaged her regen, she could actually step in avalon for a minute and get back to 100% before continuing.Originally Posted by Bugs
also the last time someone tried to match excalibur with an A+ phantasm, they got vaporized. Yeah the armor would plausibly mitigate a OHK but that match up doesn’t go in kundala’s favor.
Oh, I meant the claim that full power Saber can beat Herk.
Why?
- It's strongly implied even Shirou!Saber can take all 12 lives at once if she fires a full-powered Excaliblast;
- Shirou!Saber outfought Herakles by taking advantage of the terrain (it's debatable if she could have actually hurt him in the novel thanks to Godhand, but at the very least, she did overcome the overwhelming difference in power with pure skill) and Cú Chulainn thanks to Invisible Air (it's debatable if she would have ultimately won the battle had they continued to fight, but at the very least she had the clear advantage in melee before he pulled out his trump move - which failed);
- Rin!Saber had to save as much magical energy as she could and she still defeated an invincible technique used by a swordsman who was actually her superior in skill.
There's a reason why she's always nerfed in some way (such as Urobuchi making her job in the most idiotic manner possible) to preserve drama.
Giving Saber Avalon 9/10 is just giving her the win tbh
Not really? Herk was confident that he could win having seen the Excalibur beam in the rooftop, yeah he needed being at a better condition after losing 6 lives that's why he recommended waiting to get that chance
In the dead end, Ilya says something like "if Saber was at full power, maybe then she could have defeated him". Plus, Medea is convinced that Excalibur can defeat Herakles, and she should know better than most.
And he had 4 lives at that point not 11
And we don't even know how that resulted, aside of implying that she also defeated Gilgamesh to win the grail war if he bothered to interrupt
--edit--
also Herk himself should know better than Medea about how much his own body can endure unless Saber also had Knight Tactics as skill a la Diarmuid
Last edited by Hakuno; December 27th, 2019 at 06:52 PM.
huh, when you're right you're right
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By which I mean I misremembered that ilya referenced all 12 lives, not the 4 or so Herc has there
Actually archer thinks saber could beat herackles at full mana too. He openly speculated that letting caster keep saber for a while would be an easy way to deal with berserker. Also, it’s pretty notable that a weak sauce caliburn killed berserker 7 times when that’s nerfed at least twice over when compared to excalibur. Three times, if you count the lack of mana.
Saber Lily's profile:
If this is employed in battle as a weapon, and its True Name is released, a firepower on the same scale as Excalibur will be displayed
Also, te be noted he survived a point-blank Excalibur Morgana to the face in HF but ended swallowed by the shadow before he could fully revive
Heracles survived Excalibur Morgan in Heaven's Feel so no, taking out all 12 lives isn't possible. But it would certainly anywhere from at least 7-11 based on Excalibur being stronger than Caliburn. Saber can take off the rest of his lives naturally. It's enough for them to be considered equal, directly supported by Nasu's statements (for once)Gilgamesh used that attack with Merodach and Shirou said it was weaker than Excalibur.
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Excalibur is already on god-level so this is sort of pointless.
The sword of light possessed by Saber. A holy sword forged by an existence beyond humanity. It is considered among the strongest of Noble Phantasms. Further, it has good performance as a sword and is almost completely devoid of ostentatious ornamentation.Even if Excalibur can't overpower VS. It can defend against and offset it.A sword of light. A weapon not made by man, but a god-made equipment forged by stars. A Noble Phantasm at the top of the category of holy swords. A holy sword which transforms the owner's magical energy into "light", increasing its momentum due to the convergence and acceleration, and enable the use of magecraft of divine levels.
Remember that Salter wasn't trying to end Herc in HF. Swallowing him (giggity) was always part of the plan.
Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to think of a regular Saber taking more lives than the supercharged Salter.
FGO Supports
Well it was always implied that he either lost godhand or Salter beat him down through the extra lives, but the HF movie pretty much shows that you need to take him down before the grail mud can affect him. Makes sense what with a super pantheon heroic deeds curse being something that should be enough to fight off other curses, even something like the chaos tide.
So. Well in any there's a wide spectrum of what a beam can do someone. Just look at Herc dying to Caladbolg if he gets hit versus not taking a scratch if he parries it.
So that massive explosion was highly calculated to not take all his lives (which she shouldn't know that God Hand grants only 11)
Eddy is right. Alter was not trying to kill Heracles, just weaken him.
EDIT: also, while caliburn can get at or near Excalibur levels, the nerfing I was referring to was it was a projected...IE weakened, version that killed berserker 7 times.
Well, since we've transitioned into Saber VS Berserker since I was gone, might as well bring this up. Not only does both shirou's believe it's possible for Saber to beat Berserker, but Nasu clearly intended for that as an option. The only question is who's more likely to win. From fate/side material 2:
Takeuchi: On paper, I imagine there are many servants who can't even touch Berserker under normal circumstances.
Nasu: It does take an Ex rank Noble Phantasm or the A rank Saber to defeat Berserker in a square fight. He is quite literally a killer of mediocre heroes.
Tekeuchi: Yeah, you'd have to be a top-class hero to stand toe-to-toe with Berserker.
So, Saber being able to beat Herc directly is not in question. It's cannon. Now, this statement might indicate that Artoria's Excalibur might be 1 life short of killing Herc, and the rest is a direct CQB fight, or if there's evidence elsewhere that she can one-shot him (assuming the distinction of A-rank Saber as opposed to Ex-rank NP was intended to mean this), then this is another example of Excalibur having Ex-rank attack potency despite its rank. This is, of course, if the several comparisons between it and Ea weren't enough.
Also, Caliburn < Gram < Excalibur. Bringing up the FGO statements does not change this. In fact, what was specifically mentioned is a usage of Caliburn that causes it to self-destruct. I don't believe there was anything in FSN that indicated that Artoria actually broke it. Even then, on the same scale /=/ it's a peer. It could be a fancy way of saying it's an anti-fortress NP.
Gram is called equal to Excalibur in FSN
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Where's that mentioned? Saber can't hold back when using Excalibur, that's the whole point of being a blackened. She also has no idea how many lives he has because Illya hadn't explained it yet.
It's called a rival in the status screen. When Gil uses it, it's called inferior.
Gilgamesh never attacked with Gram. That was Merodach, equal to Caliburn"Der Ring des Nibelungen", composed later in Middle Ages Germany, is the story of a knight equal to the legend of King Arthur, and the sword Gram changes its name and appears in it as Balmung. As the "strongest demonic sword" equaling the "strongest holy sword", it even possesses the special characteristic of "dragon slayer".
Merodach was superior to Caliburn.
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