Badass Versus Thread

[AAM1232]

Yes, Herc having limits others don't clearly mean that he's being powercrept and not that most Berserkers need help to contend with him at all.

Still being delusional about Cu vs Achilles and Karna I see.

EMIYA still is outclassed in CQC by a lot of Servants, and I'm not sure how sword rains and weapon swapping will help against actually decent fighters who can avoid/negate sword rains. Still not sure how he's in the high end of Archers, which ones do you actually think are that much worse than him?

[eddyak]

has stated nothing short of an Ex-rank NP would one-shot him

Source...?

2. The statement for Cu was about skill, not speed, so it hasn't been powercrept yet, and no, nothing puts Achilles or Karna as his equal in that department once again. Cu was just better than other Lancers in speed generally.

No, he's top class in both skill and speed.

3. Medusa is impressive physically, she just sucks in martial skill, but is agile, and has good riding skills. Also, Bellerophone remains a high-level mount, with one of the best defenses in the series.

Medusa is one of those rare examples where she's actually way better than her legend. Legend Medusa is just a priestess who got cursed and turned into a monster, turning people to stone, and was killed by a dude who just looked in a mirror to figure out where she was. Series Medusa became a building-sized monstrosity, her entire island became a gigantic stomach slowly digesting everybody inside it, the gods had to give Perseus like half a dozen NPs just to survive being in her cave, and her eyes even in her normal form give her an insta-win against 95% of heroes, and a huge stat debuff across the board to anyone who survives that.

UBW would be useful. Unless we're seriously making the argument that fake NP barrages as arrows don't matter, despite the existence of things like Kazikli Bey, Phoebus Catastrophe, and Heavenly Demon Rain. Not to mention that the Da Vinci event has EMIYA outright saying his weapons aren't inferior to their originals "in numbers" indicating they hit as hard, but have some sort of conceptual degradation (and being fragile). If nothing else, the sword rains would be a good complement to his weapon switching, and could be used defensively, like how Gil did it to Saber.

It's not that UBW wouldn't be useful, somebody got those quotes wrong again.

Shirou himself says that unlike Gil, who has some quality or level of ability that lets him corner and destroy heroes with his swordspam, UBW doesn't give Shirou a chance against a hero who's mastered their one weapon. Nasu's take on Artoria vs Emiya was that UBW wouldn't be a huge obstacle for Saber, which makes sense, given her instinct, and the moment he pulled out a weapon he wasn't familiar with to CQB against her, she'd crush him and the weapon both. It isn't a good counter against an opponent who's more armoured, faster, stronger and has bigger firepower.

[Ronove]

Nasu has consistently wanked off Godhand, and has stated nothing short of an Ex-rank NP would one-shot him, so he wins 99.9% of 1v1 fights regardless of the other powercreep.

Nasu said an EX NP OR an A-ranked Servant like Artoria can defeat Heracles. We've got plenty like that nowadays.

[Zurvan]

kukuku, is that so

Herakles vs Tawara

[SpoonyViking]

Tawara makes him such a feast it breaks through his insanity. Twenty pages of food porn later, they're fast friends.

[Ronove]

Always bet on rice.

Source...?

Takeuchi: On paper, I imagine there are many Servants who can't even touch Berserker under normal circumstances.

Nasu: It does take an EX rank Noble Phantasm or the A rank Saber to defeat Berserker in a square fight. He is quite literally a killer of mediocre heroes.

Takeuchi: Yeah, you'd have to be a top class hero to stand toe-to-toe with Berserker

https://pastebin.com/iz7X2Dre

[Hakuno]

kukuku, is that so

Herakles vs Tawara

[AAM1232]

I mean who passes the Herc-bar as of now? You'll find that most of those who do aren't exactly mediocre in their own right either.

[fire_mountain_30]

Shirou himself says that unlike Gil, who has some quality or level of ability that lets him corner and destroy heroes with his swordspam,

oh come on that sounds like a load of...!

> sees Gil using his chains to control his swords to shape them like a dragon

hu? well i guess that that happened

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I wonder if a better way to put it would be spectacle creep, rather than power creep exactly.

yeah, when was the last time after Ataraxia that a Servant restrained themselves by thinking "cant use the big beam because i may hit the buildings filled with civilians"?

[pinetree]

When was the last time one was put in a position in which they had to worry about that?

[Ronove]

I mean who passes the Herc-bar as of now? You'll find that most of those who do aren't exactly mediocre in their own right either.

Isn't this kind of the point though? Herc hasn't gotten weaker, the bracket of exceptional servants have boomed.

[AAM1232]

Isn't this kind of the point though? Herc hasn't gotten weaker, the bracket of exceptional servants have boomed.

They've increased from an already low number though. And even then, I don't think there's many that could beat Herc as easily as some people are implying with their reasoning about the powercreep. God Hand + his stats and skills is still an insane combo for most Servants that don't have the luxury of strong ranged nukes.

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And also what pinetree's said about not needing to care too much about collateral damage in FGO often. Apocrypha had a bit of that limit though, not sure about other Fate works that don't involve rayshifting.

[You]

That's REALLY not fair to point that with LB5 excellent use of Servants as characters.

LB5 Servants as characters
Jason <- good execution
Corday <- forced execution
Orion <- could be better but pretty good execution
Mandricardo <- good execution

LB5 Servants that retread old character ground without adding anything new
Achilles

LB5 Servants as plot devices or set pieces
Everyone else?

[Rafflesiac]

Paris's first showing is as a plot device? RIP

[AAM1232]

I don't think he got a lot of focus in the first place, or moments with Fujimaru like Orion, Charlotte, Mando or Jason did.

[Ronove]

Paris's first showing is as a plot device? RIP

He's mostly there for banter with Achilles. Actually, the really important one was Apollo, while Paris was along for the ride.

[Reign]

Atalanta vs Robin Hood

[Rafflesiac]

What's the battlefield?

[Reign]

Uhh, rocky mountainous area I guess.

[Rafflesiac]

Atalanta should win via carpet-bombing then.