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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #125221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Mecha Olympus gods
    Those are literal shit tier. Poseidon lost to Mash and a crippled Jason even with full territory advantage where he could use his Authoritis of water and oceans. Artemis was only a threat becuz your attacks couldn't reach her. Zeus is as strong as Ivan at best.

  2. #125222
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Y'all should just wait for LB 7, where it'll be revealed that Tezcatlipoca is actually ORT this whole time.

  3. #125223
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastXxx View Post
    Poseidon lost to Mash and a crippled Jason even with full territory advantage where he could use his Authoritis of water and oceans.
    Poseidon was senile. Grandpa had robot Alzheimers. Chaldea should be tried for elder abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    The general impression is that Quetz's comment probably refers to Sefar, due to the line just before that mentioning that even gods have to follow the law of conservation of mass, something that restricted Sefar to only 7 stages on Earth.
    It's from the kingprotea entry in extra mats
    Quote Originally Posted by extra mas
    Due to limitations imposed by the force of gravity on Earth, life forms have an upper limit on their size. Even in the sea, the size of a whale is more of less as big as it can get. The same goes for buildings, due to limitations of construction technology and financing; there is nothing that can be infinitely enlarged. This also holds true in the cyber world where the laws of physics don’t apply.
    All programs have a limit on their level, and no matter how greatly a program excels, in order to surpass its boundary it must separate and optimize itself.
    (As a rule, when a program gets bigger the speed of communication with the hardware terminal drops, so a program needs to be split into various specialized parts. So called God-spirits are an example of this, having successfully split up their processes into multiple avatars.)
    And then this concept was applied to Sefar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
    ...that makes me wonder. Do you think Type Venus was used as inspiration for Tiamat? They seem pretty similar, at least superficially.
    without a doubt
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
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  4. #125224
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    The lasers and lahmu punching don't mean a thing. It's not as if Gil & Quetz have armour or anything, stabbing them is just stabbing flesh and blood.
    Quetzalcoatl is physically strong enough to lift an axe weighing a city. You think she'd hurt herself so badly on her own punches? Because she can't even do that to Kingu. That Lahmu's can pierce both their flesh so easily means their penetrative power isn't anything to sniff at. Don't need armor when you're that tough from the get-go.

    The thanos snap might not affect life that isn't of her own lineage, it doesn't affect non-living things and, being the post powerful beings of their planet, they could just be able to laugh off the effect.
    Why would lineage matter? It just says it kills established forms of life. It may not affect TYPEs who might arguably not be considered "alive" (however it would affect Sefar) but it still counts as firepower and would murder 99% of everything on Earth.

    It's a Grail. By its very nature it's a wish granter, one taken by a standard, shit-tier lahmu gave it the power to shrug off Ishtar & Quetz at the same time, and even if it is "just" 1/7th of her total mana, that's still a freaking truckload of mana.
    Grails are wish granters because they are just clumps of magic power. Even in the case of the Lahmu, it shrugged off their attacks by condensing pure mana into its wings, said by Ishtar herself. It's not a big deal at all. Femme Fatale is worth that much. Not Tiamat in general. At this stage of power, a grail is a drop in the ocean. It's only use was for waking Tiamat up.

  5. #125225
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post

    She has little to nothing in the way of offence, tbh. I doubt she could kill any of the Types, unless there's one that can be killed by Jojo-posing Lahmu. It'd be a draw.
    To be fair Slash Emperor is just a huge sword. If a kilometers-length slab of rock/metal can kill TYPES I don't see a reason why an infinite horde of super-strong monsters can't.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; April 3rd, 2020 at 08:25 PM.

  6. #125226
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Y'all should just wait for LB 7, where it'll be revealed that Tezcatlipoca is actually ORT this whole time.
    you mean where daybit fuses with ORT to form grand berserker beowulf?

  7. #125227
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    Quetzalcoatl is physically strong enough to lift an axe weighing a city. You think she'd hurt herself so badly on her own punches? Because she can't even do that to Kingu. That Lahmu's can pierce both their flesh so easily means their penetrative power isn't anything to sniff at. Don't need armor when you're that tough from the get-go.
    That isn't a thing, otherwise all Servants with C rank strength would be unscratchable. Just because Saber can knock over a building with a swing, doesn't make her skin concrete.

    Why would lineage matter? It just says it kills established forms of life. It may not affect TYPEs who might arguably not be considered "alive" (however it would affect Sefar) but it still counts as firepower and would murder 99% of everything on Earth.
    Something something different textures, something something is not subordinate to the mother it didn't come from. They make a thing of it in Babylonia, Quetz telling them that sure, Tiamat's immune to anything coming from Mesopotamia, but Quetz is Lucha Libre, and Lucha Libre doesn't bow, even before The Ultimate Milf.

    Grails are wish granters because they are just clumps of magic power. Even in the case of the Lahmu, it shrugged off their attacks by condensing pure mana into its wings, said by Ishtar herself. It's not a big deal at all. Femme Fatale is worth that much. Not Tiamat in general. At this stage of power, a grail is a drop in the ocean. It's only use was for waking Tiamat up.
    Mana needs to be shaped to do things. You can't just run electricity through a cable and expect a TV screen to magically appear at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastedspider View Post
    To be fair Slash Emperor is just a huge sword. If a kilometers-length slab of rock/metal can kill TYPES I don't see a reason why an infinite horde of super-strong monsters can't.
    Maybe, but then it didn't necessarily kill the thing, just chopped it in half. A kilometers long sword is gonna do a hell of a lot of damage, even to a thing that can't die normally.
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  8. #125228
    Beats By Matthew ft. Dr. Para Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    B-rank END tho
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  9. #125229
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Type Saturn is said to be "destroyed" by released Ado Edem.

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    And the guy wasn't even that strong as Ether Liner Knight, its just his ability to create really big sword came in handy against giant enemies.

  10. #125230
    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Something something different textures, something something is not subordinate to the mother it didn't come from. They make a thing of it in Babylonia, Quetz telling them that sure, Tiamat's immune to anything coming from Mesopotamia, but Quetz is Lucha Libre, and Lucha Libre doesn't bow, even before The Ultimate Milf.
    Tiamat's immunity to Mesopotamia stuffs doesn't have to apply to Nega Genesis, that is an Authority she got from being a Beast while Mesopotamia's immunity is basically a conceptual thing due to her status as the Grand Mother of Mesopotamia. Beast Authority can't just be limited to w/e region the Beast came from, or else it cannot do its job on global or even multi-timelines scale. Nega Genesis, according to its anime description, will deny all established lifeforms, nothing said it is limited to Earth stuffs. If Kiara can mindbreak aliens with the Earthly concepts of lust, there's no reason to assume it cannot be the same for other stuffs. Types are not affected by Earth's rules, but as we've seen they can be destroyed by various stuffs from Earth and Earth's concept of death can be added to them to put them out of action for a long time, so no reason to think other concepts can't be used. just like Outer Gods are not subjected to this universe's law but still can be defeated by stuffs from this universe.

    The idea that Types are completely beyond Earth's stuff does not hold up when they were already affected by such things in Notes. OTOH, there is also nothing said that all of the stuffs and haxes Types can pull out vs Earth things will be 100% effective and cannot be stopped. If they did, Notes wouldn't have been a thing.

    Like I said it is pointless to debate about this atm due to not enough clarity to go with, Nega Genesis even functions differently from the mats description. Wait for the script book of the anime (if they even plan to release one) or something.
    Mana needs to be shaped to do things.
    And the Art Graph only functions base on what Goetia programmed it to do. Goetia programmed it to be able to use the mana to summon heroic spirits and grant a wide variation of things to those who actually know how to use it. That's why it's just a bunch of magic energy for everyone not chosen by Goetia do his stuffs. His plan for the six singularities before Babylonia is to give someone the grail to mess shit up. But in Babylonia, he only wanted to use it to awaken Tiamat and she does the rest of the job for her fellow Beast. She doesn't even have a brain by the point she's gone berserk, so it's unlikely that she's even aware that she had this magic thing that she may use to do something with.
    Last edited by Lily Emilio; April 4th, 2020 at 12:36 AM.


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  11. #125231
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    I think this is a good time to point out True Ether is Grain.
    Spoiler:


    Slash Emperor is just a fat sword made of True Ether.
    Gods also True Ether.
    TYPES also True Ether

    So the fight is a lot fairer than most would think.
    This would be Grain based lifeforms going at it so they can definitely injure each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Maybe, but then it didn't necessarily kill the thing, just chopped it in half. A kilometers long sword is gonna do a hell of a lot of damage, even to a thing that can't die normally.
    Type Jupiter is made of gas. You can't damage gas. The sword cut the core and the core assploded.

    An Aristoteles that appeared in the western continent.
    A black giant several dozen kilometers in size. Its form was pretty close to a human.
    It was actually a group of black photon gas, and theoretically its size can expand infinitely. It carries a unknown core in its center that can only be described as an artificial sun, and the gases are emitted from this object.
    Of the 8 Aristoteles, it eliminated the most living things. The western continent went on an all out battle, and it wiped them out without a scar. ... Although there's probably no such thing as a scar to this Aristoteles.
    After this incident, a team of Knights were sent to the western continent. After a fierce battle, it was sliced into half by the demonic sword of Knight Edem, the Slash Emperor. The chopped artificial sun went berserk and burned the whole western continent.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  12. #125232
    リビングデッド Living Dead Glazy's Avatar
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    Wait if sane Tiamat is comparable to TYPES, Does that mean 7 grands can take out a TYPE? That would cause a massive continuity error.

  13. #125233
    would it tho?

  14. #125234
    リビングデッド Living Dead Glazy's Avatar
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    Alaya is powering them so I guess it would make sense. Since it fits with the theme of humanity fucks everyone. But that just kinda leaves why didn't Alaya summon the grands when the ultimate one came and rekt everyone's shit. And again you can just BS that saying that notes is a tsuki world. IDK it just feels wrong that 7 grands can just kill a type like that.

  15. #125235
    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Type Jupiter is made of gas. You can't damage gas. The sword cut the core and the core assploded.
    The image of Nero parodying the scene on Velber probe still gives me PTSD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glazy View Post
    Alaya is powering them so I guess it would make sense. Since it fits with the theme of humanity fucks everyone. But that just kinda leaves why didn't Alaya summon the grands when the ultimate one came and rekt everyone's shit. And again you can just BS that saying that notes is a tsuki world. IDK it just feels wrong that 7 grands can just kill a type like that.
    Alaya is the counter force of the current primates 霊長の抑止力. So perhaps the one associated with old humanity died with them. Gun Godo was not enough for it to function. Whatever the counter force of neo-humans in Notes is, if it even exists, should be in charge of handling the protection task.


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  16. #125236
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    That isn't a thing, otherwise all Servants with C rank strength would be unscratchable. Just because Saber can knock over a building with a swing, doesn't make her skin concrete.
    Having bladed weapons only makes your attacks more efficient, it still relies on your physical strength. Someone who can only cut buildings will never be able to pierce Quetz's flesh unless they're using specially modified weapons independent of their own physical parameters. Kinda like noble phantasms.

    Something something different textures, something something is not subordinate to the mother it didn't come from. They make a thing of it in Babylonia, Quetz telling them that sure, Tiamat's immune to anything coming from Mesopotamia, but Quetz is Lucha Libre, and Lucha Libre doesn't bow, even before The Ultimate Milf.
    Potnia Theon is irrelevant to Nega-Genesis for reasons already explained. Tiamat is also not just limited to Mesopotamian texture. She existed before textures and is the original mother of life from the genesis era that created the basis for what would later become humanity. That's where her paradox restoration comes from, and lists that she will always revive so long as life on Earth exists, not life on Mesopotamia.


    Mana needs to be shaped to do things. You can't just run electricity through a cable and expect a TV screen to magically appear at the end.
    It was said as far back in FSN that gods are beyond grails. And if you could summon a god or produce phenomena on the level of gods, there'd be no need for the holy grail to begin with.

    "That's not possible, Ilya. The Holy Grail can only call on heroic spirits, and you don't need the Holy Grail if you can reproduce phenomena on the divine spirit level.
    But even disregarding that and going with your point. Nobody actually even made a wish on the holy grail and without that, it's just providing you with magic energy. That's why the example with Lahmus falls on its face here. They transferred the grail's magic energy into parts of their body then dumped it on Tiamat to awaken her. She's just being fueled by what she already has in excess.

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    No idea what the big deal is about TYPES. Sefar is essentially one; the strongest being of her planet who was later upgraded even further by the umbral star, and not only was 1 war god enough to give her a fight, but Excalibur obliterated her entirely. Crimson Moon is one and was said to be inferior to Altrouge because she had Primate Murder as her weapon. PM is a beast itself and 7 grands are enough to repel it. Ooku establishes that this rule applies to beasts in general by Sion saying 7 grands were needed to drive one back.

    The whole "Types are beyond humanity" narrative was a different time and a different Nasu. His philosophies have become much more optimistic in favor of humanity. Tsukihime and Fate can't even exist side-by-side anymore because the human order is much stronger in Fate and dominates the laws of the solar system - galaxy through their awareness.
    Last edited by Ronove; April 4th, 2020 at 03:39 AM.

  17. #125237
    The Wolf King Lobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Y'all should just wait for LB 7, where it'll be revealed that Tezcatlipoca is actually ORT this whole time.
    Tbh, every time I see ORT's design, it looks to me like a sci-fi version of the Staff God images, the oldest known deity in South America. And given how Sefar's design was based on cave paitings, I wouldn't be surprised if Nasu tell us in LB7 or if ORT is ever brought up again on another work, that ORT was that deity. Which would also make ORT Viracocha, as that was the name of the Staff God on the times of the Incas.

  18. #125238
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastXxx View Post
    Those are literal shit tier. Poseidon lost to Mash and a crippled Jason even with full territory advantage where he could use his Authoritis of water and oceans. Artemis was only a threat becuz your attacks couldn't reach her. Zeus is as strong as Ivan at best.
    You mean the Ivan that could resist mystic eyes and [ZERO] fuckery slashes and that you happened to be lucky enough so that his defenses were not passive but dependent on his mental? I also dont recall him ever using his strongest attack on us in mammoth form. He only rained down regular lightning and hit people with his elepnant body
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  19. #125239
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post

    Outer Gods immune to even the rule of this universe
    I require the sauce for research purposes

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    That isn't a thing, otherwise all Servants with C rank strength would be unscratchable. Just because Saber can knock over a building with a swing, doesn't make her skin concrete.
    Heroic spirit weapons are abnormally sharper and sturdier than what humans can produce (mentioned for Astolfo's sword in Apo, i believe that it was when it stabbed Mordred or around that time, and also Kojirou's weak and fragile sword can easily cut steel)

    NP weapons make those look cheap by comparisson whenever they clash

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    Where was it stated again that Kiara can mindfuck aliens? Was it her CCC NP description?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    The image of Nero parodying the scene on Velber probe still gives me PTSD.

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    Alaya is the counter force of the current primates 霊長の抑止力. So perhaps the one associated with old humanity died with them. Gun Godo was not enough for it to function. Whatever the counter force of neo-humans in Notes is, if it even exists, should be in charge of handling the protection task.
    Arent there also massive issues with summoning servwnts if humanity is in certain mental conditions or if the leylines are fucked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  20. #125240
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    I think this is a good time to point out True Ether is Grain.
    Wasn't it Fifth Imaginary Factor? Or it the same thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glazy View Post
    But that just kinda leaves why didn't Alaya summon the grands when the ultimate one came and rekt everyone's shit. And again you can just BS that saying that notes is a tsuki world. IDK it just feels wrong that 7 grands can just kill a type like that.
    I've said this before, and I will say it again: TYPEs are overhyped. Just look at the Notes itself:

    Type-Pluto: destroyed by Six Sisters (technically Five Sisters at that point).
    Type-Venus: shot down by Gun God then corrupted by humanity.
    Type-Saturn: destroyed by Ado Edem.
    Type-Jupiter: either destroyed or heavily damaged by Ado Edem.

    So, half of the team had lost before the final battle (which happens after the short story; the outcome is unknown).

    Also, it is entirely possible that A-rays and Liners are not considered to be humans (in the same was as Yaga's don't) so they are not eligible for Counter-Force protection in the first place.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; April 4th, 2020 at 02:26 PM.

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