Badass Versus Thread

[Reign]

David and George have Divinity but they don't have the other advantage Chiron had, knowing all of Achilles' moves. I think they could still potentially beat him if they worked together but it'd be an uphill battle. Especially because he's not stupid enough to touch the Ark of the Covenant like mad-enhanced Herc was in Okeanos.

Kintoki would never approve of trying to gank Jeanne like Amakusa had Karna do, so if someone else goes to gank her then that would need to be kept a secret from Kintoki or else he'd cause trouble in his team before the big battle even starts. Not necessarily leave probably, but I think he would make a commotion out of it and strain Red's teamwork.

[AAM1232]

How? Achilles, while being careless isn't that stupid either. He was willing to take Siegfried's Balmung cause he knew it wouldn't do anything to him, and David/George can't do much if they're getting targeted by the likes of Atalanta and Benkei. And how would you bait him into the Ark in the first place?

[LJ3]

George is a pretty amiable person, with what little we've seen so far. So yeah, he honestly fits the Chiron niche.

Hamesh Avanim can definitely be written to disable invul and the Ark is the wild card.

That is something to consider, the Jewish factor of David and this Solomon. I can see the conflict being set up where Avicebron may show more hesitation on the decisions he made Apocrypha if he cares about how David sees him.

Since Mordred and Kairi are intact, nothing much development wise is gonna change but I see more team work from them with others like Kintoki.

No Karna and Chiron means Achilles fills the sub boss role. Hell, the amount of Christian significant characters means you have to discuss that angle. David I can see rankling Vlad and vice versa. George is the biggest factor since I can see it being plausible that he will refuse to fight for Black and act as psuedo Ruler because he sense the abnormality about this war. He would be so integral even for stuff like the Jack sub plot. That clash of ideals would mean more coming between him and Jeanne and Amakusa, while Sieg loses more revelance.

[You]

Would fake Beneki's buddha procession count as "saving" Achilles rather than an attack?

[AAM1232]

Chiron's niche apart from nice sensei was basically to keep Achilles in check though. So as far as the matchup is concerned a lot more effort now needs to go into finding a way to deal with Achilles (like maybe with Adam?). Fake Benkei's NP is also weird, as I don't know what sort of resistance it checks.

[LJ3]

I don't mean niche like powerlevels shit more on personality

[pinetree]

I guess y'all are right about the Ark thing. I just thought about how impulsive Achilles was and ignore the fact that the Ark is a big golden box. There's many underhanded ways they could get it to him still (hide it inside a golem!) but there's no way they'd plan for that without knowing his identity, and this battle is (probably) the first time they meet.

David and George have Divinity but they don't have the other advantage Chiron had, knowing all of Achilles' moves. I think they could still potentially beat him if they worked together but it'd be an uphill battle. Especially because he's not stupid enough to touch the Ark of the Covenant like mad-enhanced Herc was in Okeanos.

Kintoki would never approve of trying to gank Jeanne like Amakusa had Karna do, so if someone else goes to gank her then that would need to be kept a secret from Kintoki or else he'd cause trouble in his team before the big battle even starts. Not necessarily leave probably, but I think he would make a commotion out of it and strain Red's teamwork.

I don't think it'd be hard to keep it from Kintoki, if the attack even happens. I'm confident Golden wouldn't betray the team until after the battle, unless we assume a lot about what happened offscreen with the Red Servants.

How? Achilles, while being careless isn't that stupid either. He was willing to take Siegfried's Balmung cause he knew it wouldn't do anything to him, and David/George can't do much if they're getting targeted by the likes of Atalanta and Benkei. And how would you bait him into the Ark in the first place?

Atalante and Benkei support do complicate the fight a lot. If we assume the Dragon Divinity trio is dealing with Achilles though, that means Vlad is free, and we've seen that he can easily deal with Atalante.
That's assuming Kintoki isn't getting in this mix.

Also, I doubt Benkei would accompany them. Considering he's specialized for Master support, I could see him teaming up with Amakusa on the field.

- - - Updated - - -

Would fake Beneki's buddha procession count as "saving" Achilles rather than an attack?

Probably depends on Benkei's intention right? It's a much more deliberate action, while the vampire bite seems more instinctively "friendly" to me.

[Rafflesiac]

Atalanta would be the one attacking Jeanne, if anyone.

As for the Ark, isn't it immobile? Or mostly immobile, in Turas Realta's case.

[AAM1232]

Then there's always the chance of pairing Kintoki with Achilles/Atalanta. I wonder how he'd do in some of the matchups.

There is also Mordred on her lonesome, right? Or are we assuming that Mordred and Kairi stick with Amakusa this time round?

I'd say for Black getting Adam up and running is probably a bit more important, since it's pretty difficult to handle for this Red Team. Red on the other hand has the Gardens, that's difficult to access for Black Team.

[pinetree]

A lot about Mordred and Adam would depend on Sieg. I'm sure George would try to save him, but it's hard to pinpoint how the confrontation with Siegfried would go.

Atalanta would be the one attacking Jeanne, if anyone.

As for the Ark, isn't it immobile? Or mostly immobile, in Turas Realta's case.

I don't think anything was mentioned about it being immobile in Okeanos, but there's nothing that disproves it either. Materials say nothing.

[AAM1232]

Speaking of David, these are his NPs:

Hamesh Avanim: The Five Stones
Rank: C-*
Type: Anti-Personnel
Range: 1~99
Maximum Number of Targets: 1 person
The slingshot that defeated the giant Goliath. The five stones that express David’s tolerance, he fires the first four shots and misses his opponent on purpose as a warning, but the fifth shot will surely hit a vital point. In the case of a Servant, they will temporarily lose consciousness and suffer severe damage, although it is something insignificant even in a typical war situation where the unconscious person can be rescued by allies. Afterwards, the opponent’s main armament will either become a part of David’s possessions, or it will become unusable. He will yell in the Hebrew language a countdown of “He (5)”, “Dalet (4)”, “Gimel (3)”, “Bet (2)” and “Alef (1)” before launching the fifth stone. He will make the threat obvious towards his opponent from the count of one with a stronger shout. Given that the weapons themselves are mere normal stones that have undergone transfiguration, it is possible to unendingly replenish them.
*Is C-rank in the game profile

Sacrifice: Flames Upon the Altar
Rank: A
Type: Anti-Army
Range: 1~99
Maximum Number of Targets: 600 people
Phantasmal incense burners would materialize around each enemy presence, before they would burn the incense inside them, causing violet fumes to envelop the targets. Immediately, thunderclouds and mist gather overhead, giving somebody the impression of Mount Sinai, and hellfire is sent down from the heavens, thoroughly incinerating those who oppose the will of God without even leaving a single drop of blood behind. The flames as a whole take on the form of an altar.

Ark: The Ark of the Covenant
Rank: EX
Type: Contract
Range: 1~99
Maximum Number of Targets: 900 people
A wooden box that stored the lithographs left behind by Moses. The magical energy of those who touched it will be stolen without exception, no ifs, ands, or buts, leading them to their extinguishment.

Tbh, looking at his profile overall, he doesn't seem like a better Archer than Atalanta in that specific area. Feels like a CC fighter with a few blessings from "God".

[pinetree]

Wait if Celenike isn't abusing George does he even meet Sieg before the boy gets caught? Her fetishes might be decisive for the war.

[Zork Knight]

I'm not sure if we'd get to tha scenario but I feel George could beat Mordred where Astolfo got his ass handed to him, Mordred being a dragon-blooded brute and all. That and George not engaging in dumb shit like a dickbeam measuring contest.

[Menwearpink]

It’s probably impossible to have a golem or a homunculus touch it either so.

The point of the ark is that it’s a big impressive NP... but then you realize it’s functionally useless. It’s a plot NP and maybe they could help herd him as a team and with multiple servants and terrain could drop him onto it or something.

But where does the Arc even appearV what if it’s in the middle of town; or right by the grail, or the middle of the woods?

[pinetree]

Sacrifice: Flames Upon the Altar

I didn't remember this one. That does help him a lot in the current situation.

Tbh, looking at his profile overall, he doesn't seem like a better Archer than Atalanta in that specific area. Feels like a CC fighter with a few blessings from "God".

Yeah I can't see him fighting from a distance either.

[SpoonyViking]

David is more dangerous in a one-on-one fight than Chiron, but Chiron's knowledge and strategical mind were much more relevant than his personal power - it's not for nothing he was essential to defeating Adam, or how the Apocrypha event makes it clear the reason Achilles can hold back nine Servants at once is due to Chiron's guidance.

[pinetree]

I'm not sure if we'd get to tha scenario but I feel George could beat Mordred where Astolfo got his ass handed to him, Mordred being a dragon-blooded brute and all. That and George not engaging in dumb shit like a dickbeam measuring contest.

Kairi is the guy that's willing to use two Command Spells on the same night though. I agree that she'd lose but there's no way she'd die.

[Zork Knight]

Wait Havesh Avanim steals Noble Phantasms? I didn't remember that.

[pinetree]

Yeah, it's because he got Goliath's sword after killing him.

[Zork Knight]

I'm just thinking of bullying Mordred/Atalanta/Achilles/Kintoki now by leaving them weaponless.