Has Super-Surtr vs. Tiamom been done yet?
Has Super-Surtr vs. Tiamom been done yet?
Super-Surtr is specifically designed to end all life. He has the advantage in this, I think.
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Haven't played LB2 yet for obvious reasons, but can Surtur's flames burn Tiamat's primordial sea?
Mmmmaybe? He kept fires all over Scandinavia for 3018 years.Originally Posted by SpoonyViking
Definitely. Whether he can do it without using his sword is iffy, but given that him swinging his sword basically wipes the landscape, the biggest chaos tide related issue is how quickly she can spawn minions that actually stand a fraction of a chance in this kaiju battle.
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I think so (?), I mean, at least as far as I understand Surtr is rated as an existence that serves only to eliminate biological life and especially the Gods his profile focus on that, and says that the niche against the Gods was even more intensified because he absorbed Fenrir. And there is also the issue that Lævateinn is a Sword made directly by the Planet and it is literally super effective against Gods, the World and life itself, considering that even the Garden of Avalon was able to hit head-on against Tiamat's Sea(although there is a compatibility issue here, I think the same goes for Surtr), I don't see why the Sword's flames wouldn't too.
But it is my opinion, and I may be wrong.
Doesn't Surtr have fenrir ice to?
Yeah but we never see him use it much, I think he just uses it as ice armor? and the skills on the mats dont help either.
Nope, his sword has nowhere near enough energy or range to do that. To completely neutralize her Chaos Tide, you need a NP that can gather energy from all eras, aka Goetia's Ars Almadel Salomonis (Surtr planned to recreate Goetia's incineration feat by going around burning the entire planet). If you can't take out the entire sea itself, then she will leak more from within her body due to its volume being literally infinite, just like what happened with Quetz's sun stone.
Secondly, his sword is strong against actual life with form, or true living beings, thus his power is much weaker against ether beings like Servants, who are not actually living. In essence, his sword is the opposite of the Valkyrie's NP which is effective against not authentic life. This is where his "anti-life" ironically will get weakened versus any Beast, because the Beasts are literally the original of heroic spirit summoning system, they are literally a sort of abnormal type of servants that can be summoned by the Human Order or the Counter Force similar to the Grands.
The 11 Jojo Lahmus are as strong as divine spirits, possessing extreme endurance and attack. So they would be able to deal with Surtr, considering Sigurd and Brynhildr was able to take him out.
That was not Garden of Avalon. That was Merlin's flower magic. And it follows a very simple logic. The mud creates life, so he simply made it so that the life coming out of the mud = flowers instead of Lahmus. Also at that point Tiamat was stuck in the underworld, separate from the vast sea of mud that already covered the entire Mesopotamia. They basically isolated her from her other body parts to make it easier.
Burning the Chaos Tide is actually easy, Quetz burnt part of it. But the biggest problem is that the Chaos Tide isn't just surface water or a limited amount. It is the entire ocean, and Tiamat can refill it constantly because the volume is literally infinite. Ushiwakalahmu already said that if you want to contest with her, you need something like Ars Almadel Salomonis. A NP that not only having enough energy to pierce the planet, but also burn the entire planet's surface. Surtr's sword easily has enough heat to burn the mud, but the range is way too small to keep up with the rate she can refill the mud as well as spreading it.
Magic energy supply is not a problem here btw, because Surtr has Ind Action EX. So you have a guy who can keep burning the tide and Tiamat who can keep refilling the tide infinitely. Tiamat's Lahmus are vastly superior to the flame giants that Surtr can spawn, and in term of overall physical strength as titans Tiamat is actually stronger. And ontop of that if Surtr did not kill everything on Earth beforehand (and he is one of them), he would not be able to kill her in the first place. Surtr has a lot of things going for him should he can get some damage in, but he lacks any means to counter the bullshit conceptual invincibility that she has. And I did not even get to the can of worms that is anime Nega Genesis and Rho Aias.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; June 22nd, 2020 at 03:02 PM.
Well, my question is less if it's possible to burn the mud and more if Surtur can burn the whole thing, but you've answered that!
So, if Surtur's flames aren't enough to burn the primordial sea, and he apparently doesn't have the affinity advantage we expected him to have... Would it come down to a simple physical battle?
Honestly I disagree with the idea he wouldnt be able to hurt tiamat, or have that affinity, he also would have that affinity against any of the lahmu and I doubt 12 divine spirits would help when he was able to manhandle the entire norse pantheon, he also has the thing where he claims any domain he walks over as his territory creation EX
Also isnt surtr literally muspelheim itself?
Last edited by Byegod; June 22nd, 2020 at 03:48 PM.
can't imagine it would, because infinite mud = infinite life thus tiamat can't die
maybe surtr + some underworld god or reality marble user could do it. separating tiamat from her mud is the hard part.
That's how I see it, yes. To me, I don't see him winning at all unless you remove some of Tiamat's haxes.
- He is perfectly fine fighting her in the mud, because his existence alone would theorically provide enough heat to burn the mud around where he stands, so he's not gonna get corrupted by mud. He also has a lot of anti-divine buffs so he would deal more damage to her as well. So if he can get close to her kaiju body, that is definitely going to be a battle of raw strength.
- Assuming the battlefield is a blank planet where no other life except for them is present (to remove Tiamat's conceptual restoration), it will come down to which form she's using to fight him. Her titan form is more ideal when she is protected by the conceptual restoration, but in term of raw physical stats it's her draconic corpus form, so we'll give her that. Also for the sake of simplicity, let's assume that her Nega Genesis works like in the game and not the anime Thanos' snap (Surtr in LB2 is a effectively a servant, so you can imagine what anime's Nega Genesis would do to him). And since we go by the game's version, it has no effect on Surtr.
- To fight her draconic form, attacks above rank A++ must be used for it to do any damage to her, so Surtr must activate his sword to unleash the EX rank anti-world strike every time. If he doesn't do that, he would not do any damage to her. Her physical strength being above him means he should not try and wrestle with her for too long. The Jojo Lahmus would be big trouble for him because I don't see him being able to deal with both dragon Tiamat AND the Jojo Lahmus at the same time.
Eventually it would come down to how much damage he can do with Loptr Laejarn swings that was buffed with Fenrir's anti-divine before she and the Jojo Lahmus destroy him.
Do we even know his actual strength stat? as wasn't his strenght so immense it just made the stat 404
Monstrous Strength: B+++ : It’s a skill that represents his destructive nature as a world-ending giant. The 「+++」is some kind of bug that shouldn’t fall within the framework of his Saint Graph.
So im honestly curious what his actual strength stat is.
Surtr did not solo the entire Norse pantheon. Even after he ate Fenrir he was defeated by Odin and was sealed away in the fake sun. The only reason he could fight back that good was because all of them back then were living gods + divine, so he had like triple bonus multipliers against them. Meanwhile the entire Mesopotamia pantheon was unable to beat Tiamat, and had to seal her away.
His territory creation doesn't mean he can claim it and then no one can claim it back. Tiamat can literally rewrite the entire underworld with her mud and Nega Genesis, and the underword were supposed to be the domain above all gods.
And again, Bryn and Sigurd was able to do much damage to him. An army of Jojo Lahmus will be able to mess him up.
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Dude, it's rank A.
Tiamat's is rank A+. And with Kingprotea's profile we knew her Monstrous Strength is actually EX, the highest class.
Can i ask why the jojo lahmu's and she herself wouldnt count as life?
Reread what I said in that same statement. I don't think you actually read all of it.
But again, tiamat would trigger the divine modifier,and the jojo lahmu would be alive right so they would trigger the divine modifier + the living modifier
I repeat: The Jojo Lahmus are treated as part of Tiamat herself. Remember that anime Nega Genesis snapped them too when it hits them, and that thing allows living things to exist within.
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