Badass Versus Thread

[Deathhappens]

Gawain: Boasts about his sword technique. Suzuka notes his overwhelming power, and mostly notes about his speed, composure, and reaction time.

Raikou: Suzuka actually says nothing about her skill, but focuses on Raikou's power. It's other characters that note that Raikou's ridiculously skilled. It's also not "some boost" Her strength would have gone from A to A+ given she's considered equal to Caligula in strength.

If there's a difference between Raikou's stats and Gawain's, it's that she's the much bigger power duelist through her strength and mana burst, and Gawain is speedier, but even then, he's only B-rank, and there'd only be only a rank's difference if we were to downplay the parameter boost to only one rank. And yes, I can contest EAM. It'd have us believe they're some transcendent duelists that no one is close to in their era, and now that's shaky, especially since Gawain actually does have a statement that he rivals Lancelot in skill (so yes, Extra and Zero outright contradict one another when it comes to statements, and both have Nasu's influence). Now it's an outlier.

And again, you cannot apply the transitive property of mathematics to Servant fights. You can keep arguing with what's written on plain black letters on white font all you want, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously while you base your argument on a non-existent premise.

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

The key phrase there is "in their era". Not every era is equal, and there's like a 99% chance the writers don't take into account fighters from a different land when they put this skill in. Not to mention heroes are all different- some fought giants, some fought dragons, some just fought people. A beat B and B beat C, therefore A is stronger than C doesn't work here.

First part is the only true weakness in the argument. As for the latter, given her stat boost, the only possible thing Gawain has over Raikou is a rank in speed, and even that's questionable, so the rest would inevitably come down to skill. Other than this, nothing short of direct skill comparisons would be valid.

Also, arguing "well the author is wrong because I say so" is never going to turn out well for you.

Actually, I'm arguing that there's a contradiction, which is undeniable, and feats aren't going for Lancelot's statements at this point. Nasu supervised Urobochi on Zero, but he also worked on Extra. Gawain's profile attributes him to being Lancelot's equal. The moon cell's library says he rivals Lancelot in skill. I'm not arguing "author is wrong" as pointing out that Nasu is arguing with Nasu.

Arondight's doping is just one rank. Like going from B to A. Numeral is 3x the stats. Like going from B to B+++.

So was bellerophone supposedly. Also, I don't think the saving throw mechanic is properly defined. If it's applied to all threats and not just status effects, it could be significant.

- Character
One of the Knights of the Round Table. The Knight of the Lake.
With his signature weapon Arondight in hand, he is considered to be the strongest when it comes to individiual prowess.
He had fallen to madness many times due to the matters surrounding Queen Guinevere, and accordingly is quite compatible with the Berserker class.

Depiction in FGO
The type of Lancelot that is perhaps closest to how he was during his life. An ideal knight. To say that he is the strongest knight among the Round Table would be no sophistication.

And I don't think Arondight's stats doping is that much better than Numeral's boost. So I don't get where this "Lancelot isn't that skilled" is coming from.

Aside from Extra's statements saying they're equal, we have this gem.

From Gawain's FGO Mats.
Depiction in history
In the legend of King Arthur, he makes an appearance as a Knight of the Round Table, one who is equal or superior to "Lancelot of the Lake".

Again, contradiction.

[AAM1232]

Historical depiction =/= actual statements though. And considering Gawain couldn't beat down Lancelot with a better boost it's not a great argument for taking that at face value. Can't really use how they're shown in history to argue their actual capabilities.

[fire_mountain_30]

post shimousa musashi VS Saber Shiki

also, how strong do you think that Musashi will be when she returns from the Root, compared to Avatar of Akasha Shiki?

[Ronove]

The last time someone tried to force a possibility on Shiki, he went blind in one eye. Is Musashi ready to lose both of hers?

[Deathhappens]

post shimousa musashi VS Saber Shiki

also, how strong do you think that Musashi will be when she returns from the Root, compared to Avatar of Akasha Shiki?

Saber Shiki is a Servant, albeit still a second-rate one. Post Shimosa-Musashi is still a human, far as I remember. Even if she has ultimate swordswoman void zero hax, I don't fancy her chances all that much.

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OTOH Musashi as a Servant probably stomps handily, so if I misremembered her status after Shimosa that answers that. Saber Shiki is a good swordswoman by modern era standards, but she's still at the level of a hobbyist when compared to people who actually lived and died by the sword, Mystic Eyes or no Mystic Eyes.

[the god of world-0]

Wait, I thought Saber Shiki was supposed to be 「Shiki Ryougi」 .

[SpoonyViking]

"She" is.

[Deathhappens]

Wait, I thought Saber Shiki was supposed to be 「Shiki Ryougi」 .

The Assassin Shiki that shows up in Garden of Order is a human who happened to be caught up in a Singularity. The Saber Shiki that comes out of the

gacha

CHALDEAS summoning system

is, by definition, in a Servant container.

[SpoonyViking]

Saber Shiki is a Servant, albeit still a second-rate one. Post Shimosa-Musashi is still a human, far as I remember. Even if she has ultimate swordswoman void zero hax, I don't fancy her chances all that much.

Except for Yagyu, the Demonic Swordsmen were Servants, too, and she fought them basically on equal grounds; the only ability they had which she couldn't counter on her own was their immortality.
Usually, I'd say Musashi has the better odds, but who knows how the Connection to the Root skill ("the mark of an almighty wish-machine") even works in this scenario?

[Rafflesiac]

I will defer to Senpai here and say that powerlevels are meaningless. Instead, Void-Neesan and Musashi should be compared by a far more important metric: kimono fashion.

Void slays.

[Dullahan]

the competition is between an actual kimono and some garish harajuku cosplay thot monstrosity - i.e. not a competition at all

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almost as pointless a question as anything to do with powerlevels

[eddyak]

Yeah, Musashi should win the kimono battle by default.

[Menwearpink]

Win the award for best clown suit maybe.

[Byegod]

No thats olga

[Glazy]

Has LB Zeus v tiamat been done before?

[Byegod]

No but it will go down like any other

"we dont know"

[fire_mountain_30]

LB Zeus VS Sefar attack Megazord Zeus

[Lily Emilio]

Except for Yagyu, the Demonic Swordsmen were Servants, too, and she fought them basically on equal grounds; the only ability they had which she couldn't counter on her own was their immortality.
Usually, I'd say Musashi has the better odds, but who knows how the Connection to the Root skill ("the mark of an almighty wish-machine") even works in this scenario?

Musashi's Niten style is said to be ""the method to reach void'' so depends Nasu's waifu choice he can write some convoluted shit out of that.

LB5 Musashi can even go beyond zero by cutting the void itself so there's that.

[Zork Knight]

I'm pretty confidente LB Zeus can smite the shit out of Tiamat without worry. Unless by some extended ultra high-quality bullshit a spaceship from another universe counts as a "living being" in order to keep Tiamom around.