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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #126781
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    I think Achilles might have the best chance against Pashupata, even if it means he sacrifices his Akhileus Cosmos. That being said, would he have already sacrificed it against Karna if the latter used Vasavi Shakti?
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
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    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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  2. #126782
    死徒 Dead Apostle OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    The odds seems stacked against Achilles specifically when all four has Divinity. Maybe need to pull out Akhilleus Kosmos to tank the big attacks. Or use Diatrekhon Aster Lonkhe to shut off their NP. But with Greater Grail, he might stand a good chance by flying around with Troias Tragoidia to prevent them to keep up, and then run them over once he got an opening.

    Sigurd's Dragon Core could come in handy when the battle drags on, and Crystallized Wisdom should be able to let him come up with good plans to counter them using Gram and multiple runes at his disposal. The Grail could boost his Core even higher.

    Siegfried has it rough since he only has Armor of Fafnir and Balmung, and Karna could still wound him with just normal attacks. And being in a Servant container actually makes him weaker than his real self. But tethered to the Grail may give him a fighting chance by spamming his sword beam like Sieg did.
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  3. #126783
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Arjuna Azul or Arjuna Blanco?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not liking Achilles's odds against Pashupata.
    Normal Arjuna.

  4. #126784
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    The assumption is that at least damage carries over since it's a gauntlet, but that's a point that could use clarification in this set up.

    Sigurd has a pretty good advantage in the first set up since, even if Rin is a high tier master very few of the Hindus are very cheap. He has a flexible kit with his runes, raw strength to pay the bills and a hefty sword. He can probably do stuff like the Rune Shield that Cu has too. Not as good of a layered defense as Balmung + AoF, but it's probably close enough.

    Feels like he'd be the one who takes the most damage from all the fights however. I give him a win over Ashwatt and Rama, but his performance is probably degraded at that point. If he does get to be at full condition he can probably do well enough beating down Karna out of the battle of Noble Phantasms to pressure, or run him dry. probably dies to VS.

    Grail energy means he could spam Bolverk some, but all in all it's just making him lose one of his best advantages against his (mostly) ridiculous mana hog enemies.

    Achilles takes this pretty well, since he can fight all of them, is faster, and can run them over with a shield. He even gets his chariot to do it with friends in the second scenario without worrying about costs.

    Pashupata is probably not an issue with Achilles Kosmos, really. Unless damage on NPs carries over and Karna manages to use VS (not necessarily a given if Achilles keeps laying on him and doesn't give him a chance. It's also possible Karna tries to win with Brahmastra Kundala(s) first against Kosmos and Achilles, and runs out of enough energy to fire VS at full power.)

    Well, there's always using the Chariot against it.

    The question about Siegfried is can he end up surviving VS with a combination of Balmung and AoF? I think he can, honestly. Beyond that I'd say he has a very fair shot at getting through them.


    Siegfried has it rough since he only has Armor of Fafnir and Balmung, and Karna could still wound him with just normal attacks.
    It's really just scratch wounds and scuffing the paint job. At least it's not any more significant than Siegfried hitting Karna normally.

    I'd say Siegfried would get to at least round 3, but the question ends up if it ends up a repeat of Apocrypha. Only now Siegfried can't beam spam as well under Rin as Sieg could with Galvanism (although on the other hand Karna would be much worse off than Siegfried with having limited energy than Siegfried because he's not going to be able to spam Brahmastra, and he'll have to be pretty liberal with Mana Burst even with the costs of that skill and the armor to consider.)

    Does a proper hero's willpower and Siegfried being Siegfried, let him clash with Vasavi Shakti well enough that he survives the hit with Armor of Fafnir? Considering stuff like Artoria surviving Ea by deflecting part of it's power with Excalibur, and Gawain redirecting Vasavi Shakti in Foxtail I'd say that against a non-grail Karna, yes.

    He'd probably take some significant damage that'd make it difficult for him to fight Arjuna so I don't think he'd clear Arjuna. Although Arjuna might be the worst enemy for him in this gauntlet to begin with. Arjuna's able to be more liberal with mana burst, and Gandiva's true name since he's an Archer and also doesn't have something as costly as the armor. Plus we already know he can survive and handle someone of Siegfried's caliber in melee to persist and keep fighting.
    Last edited by Menwearpink; March 6th, 2021 at 04:40 AM.

  5. #126785
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Then again, Siegfried also has no regeneration, unless his Master is constantly using healing magecraft, so the scratches could add up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  6. #126786
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Still, he's overall more durable than Karna so he should handle those scratches better, imo.

  7. #126787
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    Unless of course someone manages to hit his video-game-boss style glowing weak point.

  8. #126788
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Honestly a very tall order with how he’s suppose to be a super defensive warrior. Fgo also gave him the buff of run away that’s probably useful too.

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    The assumption is that at least damage carries over since it's a gauntlet, but that's a point that could use clarification in this set up.
    Half a day of recovery between fights.

  10. #126790
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Why didn't they give Siegfried his invisibility cloak

  11. #126791
    Wyrd oft nereš unfǽgne eorl, žonne his ellen déah... Skull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Why didn't they give Siegfried his invisibility cloak
    If Saber can't have hers then Siegfried can't have his.

    Actually now that I think about it, Nasu making up Invisible Air to hide Excalibur seems kind of redundant when he could have waxed some explanation about how Artoria would use the cloak as a makeshift scabbard after Avalon was stolen (a la Ichigo in Bleach). Guess Nasu should have listened to the wise words of Uncle: "We must do more research!"
    "Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"


  12. #126792
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skull View Post
    If Saber can't have hers then Siegfried can't have his.

    Actually now that I think about it, Nasu making up Invisible Air to hide Excalibur seems kind of redundant when he could have waxed some explanation about how Artoria would use the cloak as a makeshift scabbard after Avalon was stolen (a la Ichigo in Bleach). Guess Nasu should have listened to the wise words of Uncle: "We must do more research!"
    Could also look at it the other way and maybe the "invisibility cloak" in Nasuverse Arthurian legend is actually a version of Invisible Air she applied around her own body instead of a sword?

  13. #126793
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skull View Post
    If Saber can't have hers then Siegfried can't have his.

    Actually now that I think about it, Nasu making up Invisible Air to hide Excalibur seems kind of redundant when he could have waxed some explanation about how Artoria would use the cloak as a makeshift scabbard after Avalon was stolen (a la Ichigo in Bleach). Guess Nasu should have listened to the wise words of Uncle: "We must do more research!"
    Considering how much research he seems to have done into the Arthurian mythos, this was more likely a deliberate choice, unless a lot of his more in-depth research happened after the initial success of FSN.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  14. #126794
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Kubera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Each of Sigurd, Achilles and Siegfried go through the Indian gauntlet: Ashwatthama, Rama, Karna, Arjuna

    Once with all of them having Rin as a Master and once with all of them hooked up to the Greater Grail. How do they do?
    I'd say Sigurd has fair chances to win. Dragon Reactor core plus half a day before the next match should give him the chance to heal with runes I think, Bolverk Gram should be strong enough to at the very least hold off the indian super nukes (like Charlemagne did in Extella), and his close combat skills + versatility are great, not even counting the glasses. With how much mana is consumed by the likes of Karna I see him winning at least the first set of rounds.

    Now giving a grail to all of them makes it way trickier since the indian servants would be at their full power, but wouldn't that also make Sigurd more like Cu Alter, who had crazy regeneration with healing runes + infinite mana? Stack on top of that his own nuke and all the other runes and I can see him still having very good chances, especially considering Karna can still only use Vasavi Shakti once while Gram can be spammed.


    I can see Achilles winning against all of them in singular matches, but since I remember his chariot taking up a lot of mana, it might be too much for a gauntlet. His chances raise a lot with the grail, but his shield can be destroyed by Vasavi Shakti which would leave him vulnerable to Karna's overall spam eventually, so I'd say Karna would win this one. Might fare a lot better against the others since it's unclear whether Pashupata or Trishula Shakti could destroy Akhilleus Kosmos like VS does.


    Being a tank Siegfried could fare well in the first set of matches with more limited mana, but honestly even if he defeated Ashwatthama I can't see him beating Rama as well, since he looks more efficient with mana and has huge versatility with all of his weapons + crazy vitality (literally survived Gae Bolg).
    Giving the grail to all of them would help his opponents more than it helps him imho. At best he would get a tie.

  15. #126795
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    I can see Achilles winning against all of them in singular matches, but since I remember his chariot taking up a lot of mana, it might be too much for a gauntlet. His chances raise a lot with the grail, but his shield can be destroyed by Vasavi Shakti which would leave him vulnerable to Karna's overall spam eventually, so I'd say Karna would win this one.
    The big assumption here is that Karna's gonna be able to keep fighting and be a threat after VS.

    He kinda uh, isn't really. VS is really a win or lose sort of thing and if he uses it Karna has essentially lost if his enemy survives it.

    For Siegfried vs Rama, it depends on how far Rama goes since he doesn't like to use his other weapons. If he's going all out his versatility is gonna be hard to deal with but it's still in Siegfried's flavor with how much of a walking tank he is. He wins the battle of true name trump cards, and he's gona be more than enough to fight him as a swordsman.

    There's really no shame in Rama losing to Siegfried considering the guy is just straight up one of the best sabers period, when he's in a class that's kind of eh for hm.

  16. #126796
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Great Angel (Highrise Invasion) versus EMIYA.

  17. #126797
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Great Angel limiters on vs Shirou in doing chores for other people.

  18. #126798
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    Great Angel limiters on vs Shirou in doing chores for other people.
    I've only seen the anime so is Great Angel actually good at chores? He just seems like a bumbling doofus with the limiters on, whereas Shirou as we all know is a master househusband.

  19. #126799
    Regarding the gauntlet, I will go against the grain and say that no one will be able to complete all 4, esp in the grail round. Even one of the opponents in the gauntlet is not an easy fight at all, and vs all 4, even half a day of recovery will not be enough, considering the resources they will have to use up during the gauntlet. The max I see anyone reaching with favorable circumstances all around, is round 3, where they hard stop. If it was individual fights, the results may be different, but no one clears the gauntlet.

  20. #126800
    死徒 Dead Apostle OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Since the VS with the Indians has been brought up again, I’d like to give my personal opinions about each opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. Ashwatthama is basically an Archer with Mad Enhancement-like skill. Sudarshan Chakra is a rather peculiar weapon to other warriors and they could be wary of how he’s going to use it to attack. The fighters’ best chance is whether they could take advantage of his Berserker-like behavior and wait until there’s an opening.

    Rama is known for his versatility due to Vishnu Bhuja. With it, he’s basically if Gil decides to be more creative with his treasury. And he could fire them off from different angles, which is bad for unsuspecting fighters with known weak points. Compared to that, his Brahmastra is more straightforward yet powerful enough not to be taken head on.

    Karna’s greatest strength would be his firepower, Mana Burst (Flame) coupled with K&K makes him the toughest adversary yet, best case scenario would be drag the battle until he’s exhausted. So long as the fighters managed to tank his big attacks like Brahmastra Kundala, they’re good. If he decides to use Vasavi Shakti, I think Achilles is the only one who can survive it, but then he’d lose his greatest defense. But it leaves Karna vulnerable, so the battle’s pretty much over.

    Arjuna... well, his skill with Gandiva makes him the most dangerous, especially to the ones with weak points. Fighters ought to close the distance ASAP whenever he’s moving away. As for Pashupata, I’d rank it the same as Vasavi Shakti, but the difference being that he has no penalty upon using it, and it needs luck check to be successful. As was said in previous post, it’s deadly for Sigurd and Achilles. The deciding factor for Achilles is whether he still has Akhilleus Kosmos or not.
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