Badass Versus Thread

[Kubera]

I find it hard to say Morgan is that much stronger (or if she even is) when Zeus is supposedly not at full power and Wodime was holding off her Rhongo until getting stabbed. She just seems far squishier than some of the others and it's not like they don't have any impressive defenses of their own.

Wodime's NP had already started to crack due to Rhongo even before he was stabbed (despite Rhongo being launched by a Lostbelt away), and Chaldea effectively judged it to be above his magecraft. Even then, Morgan has 12 of these.

Zeus did use his full power as far as I'm aware, apart from his most powerful authorities; also he himself judged Wodime as his equal, it'd be weird if he was only on par with some percentage of Zeus. Unless you mean that Zeus in LB5 wasn't fused with the other Olympians anymore, in which case yeah, he was past his prime.

It's fair that Morgan seems squishier than the other LB Kings with how she went down. Still, she was separated from her throne (and thus both Rhongo and the Fae's power), blind, not using any spell (as a top mage if she fueled the Fae's magical energy into barriers or healing the result would be crazy) and at death's door due to an angered Woodwose catching her by surprise. With her full arsenal she'd have no problem even against far more dangerous enemies.
But of course if you want to consider her without her throne it's an entirely different matter.

Overall she has been hyped up a lot for the whole chapter, to the point that imho it compensates her 'easy' end. Hearing about the Water Mirror was enough for Chaldea to deem her as the strongest LB King (sure it's Goredolf who said it, but Sherlock didn't contradict him), pretty much everyone kept praising her power and even before becoming queen she displayed crazy feats in magecraft.

Castoria also deemed she could have destroyed Cernunnos if she could use the Rhongos as well as Morgan. Even after she turned the Rhongos into the Holy Sword she couldn't destroy Cernunnos completely, so if her Holy Sword is comparable to the original Excalibur which destroyed Sefar, then that's further confirmation that we are talking about Zeus levels of power.

[AAM1232]

Zeus was at 35% at the start of the fight. And even then I don't really see Wodime as much of an equal despite his buffs in Olympus. So in the end I can't see Morgan as stronger when what Zeus needed to be beaten was far beyond what Morgan faced in the end, and even the later Calamities that popped up never seemed beyond the allies we got in ROMA and Mars.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I think Wodime could have fought on equal footing with Zeus at 100% for a non-zero amount of time given the sheer strength of the Animusphere Foundation in Olympus, but eventually, Zeus would have outlasted him.

As for Castoria claiming that if she were as strong as Morgan, I think that says less about the strength of the Holy Sword and more about how she couldn't even draw out Excalibur's full potential, that is if we take her word for it.

[AAM1232]

Zeus has the option of Gattaing if necessary unless it's a Badass Versus type of match.

[Kubera]

Uh, due to my shitty memory I used to think Zeus was 35% before fighting Chaldea and actually went 100% when he unlocked his limiters during the fight, but after checking again it's only then that he reaches 35%.

Still, the Rhongomyniads are 12. Even if Wodime = 35% Zeus, they should be enough to compensate for a less than x3 boost. Zeus being at 35% was also known by Chaldea yet they still thought he was below both Morgan & the Alien God, and it's not like their full power was known either; they hadn't even been to Morgan's throne room yet.

So while it's all mostly speculation and it's impossible to tell for sure which level Zeus would reach or if he would unlock even more authorities, I believe that at the very least Morgan should be on the same general tier.

I also have the (very personal) feeling that Nasu is going for a slow power escalation with the LB Kings, even if Morgan's defeat was easier (but that's more due to narrative differences, specific circumstances that would hardly apply here, and she having to split her main boss time with 2 others). Skadi & QHS were also easier than Ivan by just looking at the teams which fought them, yet they should scale higher (imho, at least).

As for Castoria claiming that if she were as strong as Morgan, I think that says less about the strength of the Holy Sword and more about how she couldn't even draw out Excalibur's full potential, that is if we take her word for it.

Didn't she switch from Rhongomyniads to Excalibur specifically because that's the weapon she could actually use at full potential? Altough it's very possible that it wasn't at its highest output as she was almost killing herself just to control the throne's magical energy.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Skadi & QHS were also easier than Ivan by just looking at the teams which fought them, yet they should scale higher (imho, at least).

As I mentioned in my previous post, circumstances prevented those two from utilizing their full strength by the time they fought Chaldea for real; Skadi had spent most of her powers to contain Surtr and aid Chaldea during the fight, leaving her running on fumes when she fought them for real, even though she could've cheated with death rune. QSH was only testing Chaldea as representative to PHH, and not a fight for his world's survival like other Kings attempt to.

[Kubera]

As I mentioned in my previous post, circumstances prevented those two from utilizing their full strength by the time they fought Chaldea for real; Skadi had spent most of her powers to contain Surtr and aid Chaldea during the fight, leaving her running on fumes when she fought them for real, even though she could've cheated with death rune. QSH was only testing Chaldea as representative to PHH, and not a fight for his world's survival like other Kings attempt to.

Yes, I know, and I agree. I'm trying to say that it applies to Morgan as well (low guard, undefended, not using any magecraft when attacked by Woodwose; all this +lethally wounded and blind against the Fae).

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Rankings for each Lostbelt forces?

LB1: Ophrichniki and Yagas
LB2: Valkyries and their mass-produced versions
LB3: Xiang Yu, Li Shuwen, soldiers sleeping in MT. Li
LB4: The Lokapalas and holy beasts
LB5: Machine gods (Artemis, Poseidon, Demeter, Aphrodite), Odysseus, Greek superhumans, Cerberus and other beasts
LB6: Fae Knights, Woodwose, the Fang clan army

[AAM1232]

Rankings for each Lostbelt forces?

LB1: Ophrichniki and Yagas
LB2: Valkyries and their mass-produced versions
LB3: Xiang Yu, Li Shuwen, soldiers sleeping in MT. Li
LB4: The Lokapalas and holy beasts
LB5: Machine gods (Artemis, Poseidon, Demeter, Aphrodite), Odysseus, Greek superhumans, Cerberus and other beasts
LB6: Fae Knights, Woodwose, the Fang clan army

5 > 4, 6 >= 2, 3 > 1 IMO

Maybe 6 can be higher than 4 and 3 over 2.

[Menwearpink]

Kind of unfair if you exclude hero type units from certain sides and add them to others no.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Sorry if I missed out some units. I listed the ones who I think are loyal to the LB Kings and exclude the oppositions in their Lostbelts.

1 and 3 have it rough since they lack flying troops, and not involved with deities and the like. At least 4 has Kubera and flying beasts.

- - - Updated - - -

5 obviously has the strongest manpower with multiple gods, so I can see why other Crypters consider Wodime the winner by default.

[Kubera]

Rankings for each Lostbelt forces?

LB1: Ophrichniki and Yagas
LB2: Valkyries and their mass-produced versions
LB3: Xiang Yu, Li Shuwen, soldiers sleeping in MT. Li
LB4: The Lokapalas and holy beasts
LB5: Machine gods (Artemis, Poseidon, Demeter, Aphrodite), Odysseus, Greek superhumans, Cerberus and other beasts
LB6: Fae Knights, Woodwose, the Fang clan army

5 >>> 6 > 3 > 4 > 2 >>> 1 imho.

LB5 is out of scale, 2-4 should be relative to each other due to having solid servant level commanders (but LB3 should have way more than what was shown, plus superior strategy & Xiang Yu's calcs) with LB6 slightly surpassing them due to Melusine and Woodwose. LB1 has a good army but no really strong general as far as I remember.

Ah but accounting for Ash's immortality LB4 might actually go higher.

[Byegod]

Oprichinki have the best fashion though

[OnesFleetingGlory]

5 >>> 6 > 3 > 4 > 2 >>> 1 imho.

LB5 is out of scale, 2-4 should be relative to each other due to having solid servant level commanders (but LB3 should have way more than what was shown, plus superior strategy & Xiang Yu's calcs) with LB6 slightly surpassing them due to Melusine and Woodwose. LB1 has a good army but no really strong general as far as I remember.

Ah but accounting for Ash's immortality LB4 might actually go higher.

Not sure if 3 is capable of taking on 4's Divine-laden armies, barring Xiang Yu whose frame is based on Nezha's remain.

And if they go all out, and Mt. Li also contains other chinese renown generals beside Qin Liangyu and Han Xin, then maybe someone like Lu Bu could add more fighting chance, but I suspect they would mostly consist of tacticians.

[Kubera]

Oprichinki have the best fashion though

Absolutely agree. The best LB enemies remain the QIN tanks tho

Not sure if 3 is capable of taking on 4's Divine-laden armies, barring Xiang Yu whose frame is based on Nezha's remain.

And if they go all out, and Mt. Li also contains other chinese renown generals beside Qin Liangyu and Han Xin, then maybe someone like Lu Bu could add more fighting chance, but I suspect they would mostly consist of tacticians.

You might be right, I was giving more credit to LB3 due to their tacticians and sleeping warriors, but LB4 might be too much for them still.

[Ifreet23]

How about a hindu servants power rank?

[OnesFleetingGlory]

IMO at the top of my head;
Arjuna Alter>=Vritra, Kama>=Parvati, Ganesha>Arjuna, Karna, Ashvatthaman, Rama, Sita>Lakshmibai, Nemo

Still undecided where to place Parvati and Ganesha, so I probably ranked them too high.

[AAM1232]

Wouldn't place Ganesha that high versus the Mahaboys and Rama.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Well, after browsing around, there are cases where these Servants actually triumphs over others despite seemingly weaker in the rank due to affinities.

I think Ganesha with her Anti-Obstruction NP will always prevail against Vritra who represents obstacles, but unable to destroy her outright.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Remake

Arcueid Luminous Body vs Tiamat.

Also, how does remake Arc in general scale against threats like gods, Beasts, and Avalon le Fae Morgan?