Badass Versus Thread

[eddyak]

The way Wodime talked about Surtr I always imagined he was actually far more dangerous than people give him credit for.

But hey, who knows.

That's the thing, Surtr is straight-up the end of all the worlds in Norse myth. He's prophesised to do it, and he does it. No ifs, ands or buts- no last destined hero, he isn't the villain of the piece to be defeated, he burns them all out, and then maybe burns himself out, and the whole world gets a fresher, more hopeful start. There's one sword that's said to be capable of stopping his, and that was one that was probably-maybe retconned in later, but was lost as a result of greed or pride or something in its own wielder's myth. I wouldn't put him up against megazord Galactus Zeus or anything, but any earthly god, I'd give Surtr an advantage at the very least.

The original one, that is, not the stupid bullshit corrupted version we got in the LB. I stand by the assertion that the edgy versions of all the characters are inferior, Edgecules and Jalter included.

[Zork Knight]

I'd say LB Surtr is less edgy, since he's a lovestruck boy.

[Deathhappens]

Wasn't Mordred stated to be below Gawain even at night? Someone Karna fought on par with in Fox Tail despite having a weaker master. I'd say Ash should come out on top even if with some difficulty.

Out of curiosity, where was that stated?

[SpoonyViking]

That's the thing, Surtr is straight-up the end of all the worlds in Norse myth. He's prophesised to do it, and he does it. No ifs, ands or buts- no last destined hero, he isn't the villain of the piece to be defeated, he burns them all out, and then maybe burns himself out, [...]

*After* the great winter, humans turning on each other, and the Sun and Moon being swallowed, and a massive battle between two armies of the dead (plus a whole other bunch of critters).
Don't misunderstand me, he's da bomb, but he's not the *only* bomb in Ragnarök.

Anyway, I think his portrayal worked mostly fine in LB 2; back then, my only criticism was Herakles showing up from out of nowhere (something which could have been fixed by giving Sitonai more presence in the story) to block his sword.
That said, I've since come to agree with Mizukume and Pinetree: if the map had changed over time after his release, much like how it happened with Tiamat in Babylonia, it would have sold his threat level a whole lot better.

[eddyak]

I'd say LB Surtr is less edgy, since he's a lovestruck boy.

Kind of, but not really. As the below says:

*After* the great winter, humans turning on each other, and the Sun and Moon being swallowed, and a massive battle between two armies of the dead (plus a whole other bunch of critters).
Don't misunderstand me, he's da bomb, but he's not the *only* bomb in Ragnarök.

There's a line of thought that goes that Surtr's a cleansing force, of a sort. The world reaches its twilight, all the gods and races are at war, all hating each other, Hel empties and the dead come back to wage the skeleton war, the moon gets eaten... Then the reset button is pushed, Surtr heads out, and burns all the worlds, after which a few gods and humans and so on crawl out of the ashes, and start anew, without the old hatreds and killing.

[Kubera]

Out of curiosity, where was that stated?

Tristan's interlude, Gawain says he only lost to Mordred because he was unlucky fighting her after Lancelot and that he'd normally have no problem winning even at night. While it might just be him boasting Mordred doesn't disagree, she only refutes his point about it being "bad luck" since he ended up like that due to his own stupidity.

Not exactly hard proof but I'd say it's pretty coherent with his good feats in Fox Tail.

[Kamera]

Romulus vs Qin Shi Huang

[AAM1232]

What can QSH do that Romulus can't deal with?

[Deathhappens]

Colony drop?

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I mean, Romulus can deal with the first, second, or even third, but QSH has a whole space wall up there.

[Menwearpink]

Yeah I'd give it to Ash, Mordred is just, Saber but with Battle Continuation is place of swordsmanship. And in battle of non-Berserker Berserkers, Ash should take it handily

If you ask me he's probably gonna die if Mordred beams him. Their anti armies are both A+, but the Chakra is less a nuke and more of a weapaon that's good at attacking a lot of people. If you ask me its like using a boomerang in Dragon Quest.

Wasn't Mordred stated to be below Gawain even at night? Someone Karna fought on par with in Fox Tail despite having a weaker master. I'd say Ash should come out on top even if with some difficulty.

tbh there's also Gawain not having any skills that actually help him fight unlike Mordred, and they're all in the same general frame of actual power as servants as KoTR a-listers.

[AAM1232]

Colony drop?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, Romulus can deal with the first, second, or even third, but QSH has a whole space wall up there.

QSH as a Servant doesn't exactly scream colony drops though? And it wasn't like he was doing that either in his fresh Grand level form after transferring from city mode.

[Deathhappens]

QSH as a Servant doesn't exactly scream colony drops though? And it wasn't like he was doing that either in his fresh Grand level form after transferring from city mode.

Gameplay/story segregation. We know he absolutely has the ability to do it, the question of why he didn't do it can be answered in any number of ways. Maybe he doesn't consider using the Wall as 'fighting Chaldea with his own two hands'. Maybe he wasn't sure he could hit everyone in Chaldea without ruining his nice palace in the process. Maybe he forgot about it. Maybe lots of things.

[AAM1232]

Gameplay/story segregation. We know he absolutely has the ability to do it, the question of why he didn't do it can be answered in any number of ways. Maybe he doesn't consider using the Wall as 'fighting Chaldea with his own two hands'. Maybe he wasn't sure he could hit everyone in Chaldea without ruining his nice palace in the process. Maybe he forgot about it. Maybe lots of things.

Again, I'm not sure why we're discussing final boss QSH vs Servant QSH?

[Byegod]

ill go for a crossover one

zenos (stormblood version) vs saber servants, how many can he defeat

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Tunguska Sanctuary progression;

Ibuki-Douji vs Divine Beast Ivan

She's a Servant now rather than a Divine Spirit back in Heian-kyo, but she's still plenty strong. Strong enough to hold Mammoth Ivan in place using the Orochis, like Gorgon restraining Tiamat. While she and Chaldea came out on top, there are limits to her Servant self so she could probably barely win in 1-on-1. Her Divine Spirit self would soundly curbstomp him.

[Ronove]

Do we have any reason to believe Nu-Ivan has the same strength as the old one? Kind of a policy that fakes and duplicates are watered down from the original. Mystery explicitly works that way and that's probably important for Ivan's mammoth.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Point taken. To be more precise, it's AN602-Ivan, a Lost Weapon. It's more like an instinctual Phantasmal Beast rather than original Ivan with Koyanskaya's modification. Might make it closer to but not the same as Ivan himself.

[Kubera]

How many Fate characters do you think could take on Super Orion's final arrow and survive? No dodging allowed but they can try to respond with another attack.

[AAM1232]

Super Zeus at least.

[eddyak]

Does Avalon's Don't Be There clause override the ultimate Grand hunter's Shoot The Thing Without Fail clause?