Badass Versus Thread

[Bunhelier]

Vritra Bond 2

"Vritra, the dragon of confined boundaries.
The Divine Spirit and dragon species that embodies the concept of "impediment" itself.
The one who brings the world to a halt.
As a Servant, that property has been reduced in size into the shape of a human as she materialized.

She is often referred to as an evil god who brings about droughts, but she has also been interpreted as a "giant of winter".
The concept known as Vritra embodies the "state without water (having been dammed up by ice)" like what happens during a harsh winter; opposing her is the god of thunder Indra, who embodies the "state where this (the suffering caused by droughts and winter) is destroyed and the waters are liberated, making rain fall".

Melusine

Ray Horizon: A

An anecdote from England about a dragon (mirage) that guards the "horizon" or "boundary", which is said to be the gate to the other world. Mélusine is purely a name and vessel as a fairy, and her original role is the "boundary" itself....... The procedure for transforming into the original form of Mélusine.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Welp, I stand corrected.

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Still, it's pretty weird that despite being referred to as an evil god, she lacks Divinity.

[Kubera]

Percival has that lance which is more or less equal to rhonghomyniad. So of course he should be able to defeat melusine.

Equal to Rhongomyniad is a bit vague tho. Is it as strong as Lancer Artoria's Rhongo or as a strong as Lion King/Morgan's Rhongo?

Especially for Lostbelt Percival, whose spear is just Morgan's old staff of selection.

[AAM1232]

Considering the short amount of time it took Morgan to completely reverse engineer chaldeas summoning system, and the (insert exact amount of Morgans that exist in LB6) clones, I think it wouldn't be much trouble for her to get around Vritra's weakness. Also saying "died to Woodwose of all people" really undermines how strong he is and the situation it took to kill her.

Being squishy also doesn't matter that much when you can seemingly do anything magecraft allows for and you got a whole army of yourself.

The same can be said of a full strength Vritra tbf. And I don't think Woodwose can be said to be that much of a deal compared to Vritra.

[Bunhelier]

If Ozy's Ramesseum can destroy Rhon's barrier, i believe Vritra's Anti-World NP can do better.

[Bunhelier]

Considering the short amount of time it took Morgan to completely reverse engineer chaldeas summoning system, and the (insert exact amount of Morgans that exist in LB6) clones, I think it wouldn't be much trouble for her to get around Vritra's weakness. Also saying "died to Woodwose of all people" really undermines how strong he is and the situation it took to kill her.

Being squishy also doesn't matter that much when you can seemingly do anything magecraft allows for and you got a whole army of yourself.

Its unfair to think Morgan can easily solve every matter in short amount of time while using her speciality as the basis, considering that she need a specific requirement to bypass Vritra's Folklore Defense, i mean sure she may can make seafoam attribute since her magic has water attribute but i don't think she can fulfill the second requierement since she never demonstrate anything like Arjuna Alter who can change the entire enviroment of his Lostbelt like fragrance, weather etc.

Not to mention Vritra as dragon has innate high magic resistance even to Magic from Age of Gods and don't forget that even if Morgan have army of herself Vritra also have army of her flesh.

[Takashi]

Equal to Rhongomyniad is a bit vague tho. Is it as strong as Lancer Artoria's Rhongo or as a strong as Lion King/Morgan's Rhongo?

Especially for Lostbelt Percival, whose spear is just Morgan's old staff of selection.

He wiped out the strongest being on the fairy kingdom.
It should be as strong as whatever you see melusine. It's status and context.
Also I think it's more on line of they give out same light as rhonghomyniad which was edited out in alter rhonghomyniad (because spoiler maybe?).

Melusine is the same one that destroyed the white dragon that was gonna swallowing everything there is while dying

[Noa]

Nursery Rhyme vs Alice (Kuonji, not NR's master from Extra)

[Glazy]

SNIP

That doesn't change the fact that it has no feats no statements . Sure you can try to scale to Fafnir, Vortigern , Albion Etc but it still unquantifiable outside of "it's just strong". Maybe it's stronger than Albion maybe it's weaker than Fafnir
We simply don't know.

"

If Ozy's Ramesseum can destroy Rhon's barrier, i believe Vritra's Anti-World NP can do better.

Ignoring the fact that Ozy had to sacrifice himself to pierce it.

[Bunhelier]

That doesn't change the fact that it has no feats no statements . Sure you can try to scale to Fafnir, Vortigern , Albion Etc but it still unquantifiable outside of "it's just strong". Maybe it's stronger than Albion maybe it's weaker than Fafnir
We simply don't know.

"

Ignoring the fact that Ozy had to sacrifice himself to pierce it.

The only statement Asurasherestha has is defeating an army of gods/divine spirits.

Because Ramesseum is only Anti-Fortress NP plus that Ozy have not enough mana to shoot anymore since he gave the Holy Grail to Chaldea, Vritra need to absorbs Holy Grail to regain her former power so pretty sure in terms of firepower Vritra is much more powerful than Ozy and Fafnir.

[Glazy]

The only statement Asurasherestha has is defeating an army of gods/divine spirits.

Because Ramesseum is only Anti-Fortress NP plus that Ozy have not enough mana to shoot anymore since he gave the Holy Grail to Chaldea, Vritra need to absorbs Holy Grail to regain her former power so pretty sure in terms of firepower Vritra is much more powerful than Ozy and Fafnir.

Still unquantifiable since Divine Spirits are all over the place

How do you know she's stronger than Fafnir? Because of the Grail? If you give Billy the kid a grail is he more stronger than Fafnir? Also if the grail gives "her original power" how powerful is her original form?
Regardless even if she is stronger than Fafnir and Ozy. She doesn't haven't enough power to break through Rhongo. Also she has no defense against Water Mirror.

[Bunhelier]

Still unquantifiable since Divine Spirits are all over the place

How do you know she's stronger than Fafnir? Because of the Grail? If you give Billy the kid a grail is he more stronger than Fafnir? Also if the grail gives "her original power" how powerful is her original form?
Regardless even if she is stronger than Fafnir and Ozy. She doesn't haven't enough power to break through Rhongo. Also she has no defense against Water Mirror.

Indra the King of Gods the original owner of Vasavi Shakti, one of the most powerful NP in Fate.

I don't get the logic/equivalance behind giving random servant Holy Grail and absorbs a Holy Grail to regain lost power. Dragon breath damage value is the same as their constitution value, as Vritra needed Holy Grail to regain her power i do think that her firepower surpass that of Fafnir who could destroy Orleans with single breath.

Also what with this one-sided view that Vritra can't break Rhongo while Morgan can break Vritra defense easily? Honestly this sound bias and bs.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

She doesn't haven't enough power to break through Rhongo.

Where is this stated?

[Glazy]

I don't get the logic/equivalance behind giving random servant Holy Grail and absorbs a Holy Grail to regain lost power. Dragon breath damage value is the same as their constitution value, as Vritra needed Holy Grail to regain her power i do think that her firepower surpass that of Fafnir who could destroy Orleans with single breath.

Also what with this one-sided view that Vritra can't break Rhongo while Morgan can break Vritra defense easily? Honestly this sound bias and bs.

Again how do you know that. Asura Sreshtra has no feats outside of very vague statements It's unquantifiable.
I never said that Morgan can break Vrita defense? I just said she could meet those requirements to bypass those defense.

Indra the King of Gods the original owner of Vasavi Shakti, one of the most powerful NP in Fate.

And? Zeus can casually do Anti-World Thunderbolts and Rhongo is equal to that.

Where is this stated?

By feats and statements
Wodime magecraft can equal zeus/artemis which is equal to Rhongo.
That should be enough to far bypass both Fafnir and Ozy's power.

[AAM1232]

Let's not pretend like Morgan scaling isn't bs handwavy stuff either. Not a VS worth debating with the limited info.

[eddyak]

Ramesseum is only Anti-Fortress NP

Anti-fortress NP breaks fortress wall. I see no problem here.

If your NP is anti-army, you wouldn't necessarily expect it to be a sure kill against an individual, an anti-fortress NP is not the best thing to use when killing armies, and an anti-unit NP won't be very good at punching out Worlds.

[Bunhelier]

Again how do you know that. Asura Sreshtra has no feats outside of very vague statements It's unquantifiable.
I never said that Morgan can break Vrita defense? I just said she could meet those requirements to bypass those defense.


And? Zeus can casually do Anti-World Thunderbolts and Rhongo is equal to that.



By feats and statements
Wodime magecraft can equal zeus/artemis which is equal to Rhongo.
That should be enough to far bypass both Fafnir and Ozy's power.

I think you misunderstand the scaling chain here, Rhongo equal to Laevatein and Wodime which further scale to Zeus remember this was all about firepower not full capability, as barrier? i don't think Rhongo equal to Wodime's barrier. Remember that Rhongo's real power is to hold Texture while yes its firepower is also big Rhongo was never meant to be fired at people nor it was specialized in creating barrier, its real capability is to hold the Texture of the planet.

So it wasnt strange if Rhongo's barrier can be destroyed by Ozy.

[Glazy]

I think you misunderstand the scaling chain here, Rhongo equal to Laevatein and Wodime which further scale to Zeus remember this was all about firepower not full capability, as barrier? i don't think Rhongo equal to Wodime's barrier. Remember that Rhongo's real power is to hold Texture while yes its firepower is also big Rhongo was never meant to be fired at people nor it was specialized in creating barrier, its real capability is to hold the Texture of the planet.

So it wasnt strange if Rhongo's barrier can be destroyed by Ozy.

I think this was a huge misunderstanding. Apparently I can't read so I didn't see that whole Rhongo barrier thing and though you were talking about Rhon(attacking).
Regardless I feel like we can't quantify whole Rhongo(barrier) vs Asura Sreshtra since Morgan didn't use Rhon that way and Asura is featless.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Nursery Rhyme vs Alice (Kuonji, not NR's master from Extra)

Depends if Kuonji can resist Nameless Forest' effects by herself, or dealing with Jabberwock. Well, she probably can.

Queen's Glass Game, though...

[Menwearpink]

NR is basically a budget Alice.

That makes her absolutely broken but it's still no Alice.