Badass Versus Thread

[Ideofago]

I remember something mentioning she had a better average speed than even Lancer, and that Cu only outranked her on burst and 0 to 100 alone. Anyways, if the idea is moving so you don't get hit, the less weight, the better. Plus, she could very well try to bind Saber as a distraction technique, especially if she hid it with another attack to trigger Saber's instinct and divert her attention, though I don't know how reasonable that is. I think it's a very fair matchup depending on the efectiveness of Medusa's ninja skills.

[Deathhappens]

I don't think Medusa needs an armor given how speedy she is, what with her A rank agility compared to Artoria's C.

Running away won't help her win a battle and she won't be able to blitz given the lack of viable targets and Saber's Instinct.

[Ideofago]

How far does her Instinct even go? How susceptible is it to fake outs, tricks and the like? Yeah, she can dodge Cu's NP, but it's an NP he was making *no* effort to hide whatsoever, and even then she still gets hurt. Can it keep up with Rider at full speed too? What is Rider's full speed? Does the way she won against Tsubame Gaeshi apply here?

[Deathhappens]

The whole point of Instinct is that it makes her NOT susceptible to ordinary tricks and fakeouts because she can sense where the real attack is coming from. That's why Diarmuid's Knight Tactics suckered her in so bad and also why she still managed to survive with just a scratch while his trap was supposed to be a sure kill. Forget Cu's NP, Instinct let her find a way through Tsubamegaeshi where one would not normally exist (even accounting for the slight bend in Monohoshizao that created it).

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter though. Given Medusa's lack of options she doesn't need Instinct to defend her weak spots, speed or no speed. Saber's an actual trained warrior practically since birth, Medusa is just a non-scary monster.

[Byegod]

Honestly i do find the hyperbole at times on things like tsubame a bit odd

Like one thought that keeps going through my head is, "what bout servants with helmets or servamts with more than two arms?"

Also when plot occurs her instinct goes away like with snake

[madarra]

If helmets would work then Armor would work, Seiba has plenty armor, so since its not working, assume a helmet wouldnt work.

And a servant with 4 arms would need to know where Tsubame Gaeshi is coming from to block it, and without instinkt to read the story script for you ahead of time, how would you know to block in the 3rd slice direction?

Then again, pretty sure Tsubame Gaeshis flavor text says Undodgeable not unblockable. Its just that Seiba lacks the means to block in all the directions, while servants without instinkt just wont know the magical 3rd direction to block in. Even Seibas plot breaking instinkt only knows the 3rd direction cuz she saw the 2 slice Gaeshi.

[Ideofago]

Just be 4 dimensional. Easy.

[Deathhappens]

If helmets would work then Armor would work, Seiba has plenty armor, so since its not working, assume a helmet wouldnt work.

And a servant with 4 arms would need to know where Tsubame Gaeshi is coming from to block it, and without instinkt to read the story script for you ahead of time, how would you know to block in the 3rd slice direction?

Then again, pretty sure Tsubame Gaeshis flavor text says Undodgeable not unblockable. Its just that Seiba lacks the means to block in all the directions, while servants without instinkt just wont know the magical 3rd direction to block in. Even Seibas plot breaking instinkt only knows the 3rd direction cuz she saw the 2 slice Gaeshi.

It's not that complicated. Tsubamegaeshi is just "three slices all at once" (ignoring how Kojiro goes about achieving that). An average swordsman can only block one, a good swordsman can find a way to block/dodge two at once, but practically nobody can dodge all three at once. Anyone armored or just tough enough to not be killed by a single slash (a feat which quite a few Heroic Spirits can perform nowadays) can just tank it.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Iskandar vs Lu Bu

[Deathhappens]

Iskandar has an army. Lu Bu is a one-man army.

Pretty even all things considered.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Fair enough. Still can't measure up Lu Bu's NP clearly, though it's classified as anti-unit, army, and fortress. I hope Record can elaborate more on that.

[Byegod]

Though we do get lines that iskanders army has some super strong mages in it that could create defenses for some NPs right?

would be cool to get the army detailed tbh

[eddyak]

It's an army made up of Heroic Spirits, it'll have some hero-level mages, but honestly I don't see them blocking anything mid to high level. They don't have NPs themselves, after all.

Medea's top tier when it comes to magic, Age of Gods level shit, but even her defences got rekt by a single NP from Archer or a sword rain from Gil. When it comes to offensive NPs, you've either gotta have a defensive NP of your own, or else just be somewhere else.

[Reign]

I think the most we know about IH's soldiers' individual capabilities are Ptolemy's weapons in his concept art. Not a lot to go on.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and Hephaestion has the For He Is Another Iskandar skill, but that won't let him do anything that Iskandar can't.

[Byegod]

It's an army made up of Heroic Spirits, it'll have some hero-level mages, but honestly I don't see them blocking anything mid to high level. They don't have NPs themselves, after all.

Medea's top tier when it comes to magic, Age of Gods level shit, but even her defences got rekt by a single NP from Archer or a sword rain from Gil. When it comes to offensive NPs, you've either gotta have a defensive NP of your own, or else just be somewhere else.

Honestly medea feels weirder and weider as time goes on as the powercreep of servants has also gone on

[eddyak]

On the one part, I agree, what with the stupidity that was "lol EX ranked laser beams for the lady who doesn't actually own this flying fortress".

On the other, she's a civilian in a world of soldiers and heroes.

I don't doubt if she was actually used to battle she'd have some very effective shit, but the lady's idea of how to win the grail war was "Prepare a creepy dungeon, get the pretty blonde lady, keeping a pretty blonde lady in the dungeon will make everything better".

[WeyP96]

kaiki can kill servants

On a more serious note, shouldn't Kaiki be able to kill servants if he technically killed a snake goddess?

[Deathhappens]

God, no. Kaii in Monogatari are wildly different from monsters and/or deities in most other fiction, including and especially the Nasuverse.

Oryou would just eat him.

[Byegod]

I wanna make a Vs....

So ill throw out a few crossover ones

The what if supreme strange, how far can he go?

Any good elder scrolls characters that could fight and/or beat up servants?

[Menwearpink]

Honestly medea feels weirder and weider as time goes on as the powercreep of servants has also gone on

Eh?

If anything Nasu's only been sort of buffing Medea overtime with things like in F/HA and the UBW anime.

Hey let me make basically a reality marble using the taint and color of Gilles's summoning from the fourth war and the concept of BRIDGES real quick. Hey I'll make clones of Rider just because I feel like it.

It's also not like Berserker or Saber don't eat shit from sword rains and what not. Caladbolg beats out Medea because it sorta counters the spatial teleportation that would otherwise avoid a lot of beams and nukes... and there's something to be said about the fact that she mainly loses because she's messing around and not taking things seriously or lowers her guard.

If she had wanted to kill Archer she could've done so at multiple points, or certainly way quicker instead of actually gloating and waiting around for the boomerangs to hit her.

Her bullshit is in just how she can pretty much do everything, at ridiculously high levels and can build up to be an absolute monster. Kojirou for one is only useful because of her anti-magic and noble phantasm boundary that keeps him from just being sniped or strike air'd down from a distance. There's also something to be said of the fact that beyond just bumbling she didn't get a chance to use her Item Creation in Fate Stay Night beyond Dragontooth Warrior creation too.

On the one part, I agree, what with the stupidity that was "lol EX ranked laser beams for the lady who doesn't actually own this flying fortress".

On the other, she's a civilian in a world of soldiers and heroes.

I don't doubt if she was actually used to battle she'd have some very effective shit, but the lady's idea of how to win the grail war was "Prepare a creepy dungeon, get the pretty blonde lady, keeping a pretty blonde lady in the dungeon will make everything better".

To be fair she didn't actually care about winning that much pretty clearly and was messing around a lot. All she wanted was Netflix and Chill with Souichirou. Her heart wasn't really into it.

That said I feel like Medea's ritual class beams are stronger than Semi's fortress EX rank beams. It's just that Semi can shoot multiple more easily.

Not that the gardens are practical outside of unlimited mage association budget works and 60 years of prep.