Badass Versus Thread

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

Probably depends on how Rhon would interact with Loptr Laejarn. Since one is "burn the texture" and one is "stick the texture".

I don't think they would interact at all. Rhon would keep the texture in place while LL burns it. If LL was about "removing" the texture it would be different.

[eddyak]

I don't know what you're babbling about. Napoleon was one of the servants sent by the Counter Force along with Bryn, nothing stated the Counter Force buffed his ass to the max like he's on some Spirit Bomb shit. Stop lying.

Literally playing LB2 right now, and it's said at least two times at this point that he's got modifications out the wazoo specifically for this LB, and that he currently has a whole ton of power more than his Spirit Origin could normally handle.

[fire_mountain_30]

on the topic of the 12 Lahmus compared to the regular fire giants, wasn't the very first giant in LB2 already compared to a Servant in terms of power? by that standard, how many fire giants would it take to fight one of those Lahmus to a draw?

[Lily Emilio]

Literally playing LB2 right now, and it's said at least two times at this point that he's got modifications out the wazoo specifically for this LB, and that he currently has a whole ton of power more than his Spirit Origin could normally handle.

I'm not sure if you're unable to read or you did not read far enough, but you're exaggerating and misreading the heck out of things:

- He got "tuned up" to fight better in the LB, not that he is mega buffed "out of the wazoo". Classic eddyak exaggeration, but it's only working for someone who either did not read the damn thing or forgot finer details. He was able to provide mana supply for Mashu as she fights, and that is an ability he got for the job, to be able to function alone for a long ass time.

- He is effective for the LB because he is anti-mystery and anti-divine like Nobu.

- The reason he cannot handle more power was because he's a solo servant, and a contract with a Master is required for him to basically go up an ascension stage. By forming contract with Guda that he was able to function properly, just like the million times before where Guda forms contract with solo servants.

- It was originally believed that he was the only servant summoned to deal with the LB and that is probably why you got the idea that he is Counter Force's trump card. But you completely forgot that it is revealed later on that Bryn AND Sitonai were also part of the gang, so he was not the only one.

There is no "Counter Force putting all of the hope in him and buff his ass to the max" like you claimed whatsoever. It does not exist anywhere. If the shot he did to crack Surtr's skull was buffed by the counter force, it would've definitely been mentioned in that very same scene. But nope, it was fueled by his own life, and that is why it's awesome.

Just. Stop. Lying. You're demeaning Napoleon's feat to wank Surtr.

And the shot he did was to expose Surtr's spirit core, then while he is regenerating he cannot move so we can kill him on the spot. Meanwhile Tiamat after being downgraded to servant level, with her head getting bombarded by Eresh, Ishtar, Jaguar...etc in order to smash her spirit core, was able to climb 700 freaking meters from the bottom of the underworld to the top of the hole and was dangerously close to be able to get out, requiring Gil's Enuma Elish to actually do the trick (and she was already moving freaking slow). Your argument only makes it even more apparent that in term of saint graph's durability alone, Surtr is vastly pale in comparison. And even worse, Tiamat can literally recreate or improve her saint graph while Surtr cannot. He cannot regenerate while he's fighting, while she can. Eventually his saint graph will give in to all of the damage faster than what he can do to her.

- - - Updated - - -

on the topic of the 12 Lahmus compared to the regular fire giants, wasn't the very first giant in LB2 already compared to a Servant in terms of power? by that standard, how many fire giants would it take to fight one of those Lahmus to a draw?

The Jojo Lahmus CAN FLY while the giants cannot. Not only that they are extremely durable and fast, they can mutate their limbs and can fire beams from above out of the giant's range, and each of them are equal to several chief demon pillars (around 6, because 11 of them combined = the 72 pillars, they are quality over quantity). They have absolute advantage in a battle against the giants, and assisting them are hundreds of millions of lesser Lahmus who were also mutated to be capable of flight. In term of minions abilities and number, Tiamat completely outmatched Surtr.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

on the topic of the 12 Lahmus compared to the regular fire giants, wasn't the very first giant in LB2 already compared to a Servant in terms of power? by that standard, how many fire giants would it take to fight one of those Lahmus to a draw?

seeing as our team can take several at once, probably a lot. regular lahmus were also compared to servants and were spawned by the hundreds of millions.

[eddyak]

I'm not sure if you're unable to read or you did not read far enough, but you're exaggerating and misreading the heck out of things:

- He got "tuned up" to fight better in the LB, not that he is mega buffed "out of the wazoo". Classic eddyak exaggeration, but it's only working for someone who either did not read the damn thing or forgot finer details. He was able to provide mana supply for Mashu as she fights, and that is an ability he got for the job, to be able to function alone for a long ass time.

- He is effective for the LB because he is anti-mystery and anti-divine like Nobu.

- The reason he cannot handle more power was because he's a solo servant, and a contract with a Master is required for him to basically go up an ascension stage. By forming contract with Guda that he was able to function properly, just like the million times before where Guda forms contract with solo servants.

- It was originally believed that he was the only servant summoned to deal with the LB and that is probably why you got the idea that he is Counter Force's trump card. But you completely forgot that it is revealed later on that Bryn AND Sitonai were also part of the gang, so he was not the only one.

There is no "Counter Force putting all of the hope in him and buff his ass to the max" like you claimed whatsoever. It does not exist anywhere. If the shot he did to crack Surtr's skull was buffed by the counter force, it would've definitely been mentioned in that very same scene. But nope, it was fueled by his own life, and that is why it's awesome.

Just. Stop. Lying. You're demeaning Napoleon's feat to wank Surtr.

And the shot he did was to expose Surtr's spirit core, then while he is regenerating he cannot move so we can kill him on the spot. Meanwhile Tiamat after being downgraded to servant level, with her head getting bombarded by Eresh, Ishtar, Jaguar...etc in order to smash her spirit core, was able to climb 700 freaking meters from the bottom of the underworld to the top of the hole and was dangerously close to be able to get out, requiring Gil's Enuma Elish to actually do the trick (and she was already moving freaking slow). Your argument only makes it even more apparent that in term of saint graph's durability alone, Surtr is vastly pale in comparison. And even worse, Tiamat can literally recreate or improve her saint graph while Surtr cannot. He cannot regenerate while he's fighting, while she can. Eventually his saint graph will give in to all of the damage faster than what he can do to her.

Verbatim:

He's just provided a boost.
"I'm the only hero of humanity in this whole lostbelt. I believe I'm basically calibrated for fighting here. And that's not even the only trick I have up my sleeve!"

The other scene:
Sigurd: "A Heroic Spirit and a hybrid, huh. You're more of a challenge than I thought. Something's helping you out. Maybe it's because you materialised with more power than your own spirit origin could never hope to possess."

Sure. Making things up. Whatever you say.

[Lily Emilio]

Verbatim:

He's just provided a boost.
"I'm the only hero of humanity in this whole lostbelt. I believe I'm basically calibrated for fighting here. And that's not even the only trick I have up my sleeve!"

What part of "Bryn and Sitonai were revealed to also be panhuman servants thus invalidate that" that you're still unable to grasp?

The other scene:
Sigurd: "A Heroic Spirit and a hybrid, huh. You're more of a challenge than I thought. Something's helping you out. Maybe it's because you materialised with more power than your own spirit origin could never hope to possess."

Buddy, the point is that it's not "out of the wazoo" like he's on some Grand steroids like Gramps. We all knew he got buffed to fight in the LB, no shit he did. But if he was so buffed "out of the wazoo", why couldn't he handle Sigurd despite teaming up with Mashu? Why couldn't he fight all of the giants solo? His so-called buff that his saint graph can't handle couldn't even elevate him to Sigurd's level, which makes sense because he is a relatively recent heroic spirit in the first place, he has to get some buffs to fare against threats that ancient heroes on the level of Arthur could handle normally.

So yes, you're still unable to provide the evidence that he was "super buffed as the hope of the counter force", you only try to argue that he got buffed so much he's probably god tier (no he isn't).

Sure. Making things up. Whatever you say.

Yes, you made things up obviously, and I was right because the quotes did not say anything proving your claims, only show that you're incapable of reading and providing meaningful counterarguments. It's time to stop making more fool out of yourself, if your only argument is about how many Kaioken multipliers Napoleon "probably" had in the LB.

[eddyak]

What part of "Bryn and Sitonai were revealed to also be panhuman servants thus invalidate that" that you're still unable to grasp?

It doesn't invalidate anything except that he's alone. He still got a bunch of buffs and abilites he wouldn't normally be able to use.

Buddy, the point is that it's not "out of the wazoo" like he's on some Grand steroids like Gramps. We all knew he got buffed to fight in the LB, no shit he did. But if he was so buffed "out of the wazoo", why couldn't he handle Sigurd despite teaming up with Mashu? Why couldn't he fight all of the giants solo? His so-called buff that his saint graph can't handle couldn't even elevate him to Sigurd's level, which makes sense because he is a relatively recent heroic spirit in the first place, he has to get some buffs to fare against threats that ancient heroes on the level of Arthur could handle normally.

So yes, you're still unable to provide the evidence that he was "super buffed as the hope of the counter force", you only try to argue that he got buffed so much he's probably god tier (no he isn't).

Yes, you made things up obviously, and I was right because the quotes did not say anything proving your claims, only show that you're incapable of reading and providing meaningful counterarguments. It's time to stop making more fool out of yourself, if your only argument is about how many Kaioken multipliers Napoleon "probably" had in the LB.

You say he couldn't have been buffed all that much, and then in the next sentence say he's a recent hero and thus needed a ton of buffing.

"You materialised with more power than your Spirit Origin could never hope to possess". Literally says he got buffed well beyond his normal capacity. I said nothing about him getting buffed to god levels, that was your own weird galaxy brain logic at work there m8.

[Lily Emilio]

It doesn't invalidate anything except that he's alone. He still got a bunch of buffs and abilites he wouldn't normally be able to use.

It does. It invalidates your claim that the CF put all of hope and shit on to him, as it has 2 other servants to place hope on, and that is all that matters. Period. None of that shit exist, and you clearly were unable to prove it, other than repeating the fact that he is buffed.

You say he couldn't have been buffed all that much, and then in the next sentence say he's a recent hero and thus needed a ton of buffing.

Reading comprehension again with you. He is recent so he is weak, and thus his original saint graph is also weak. And with the so-called buffs he received he was still nowhere near top tier heroic spirit level. So you ironically proved that despite the assumed "wazoo" amount of buffs that your headcanon is telling you, he is still just a good servant and not something extremely crucial in him blasting Surtr's skull. An Excalibur blast would probalbly yield similar effect.

"You materialised with more power than your Spirit Origin could never hope to possess". Literally says he got buffed well beyond his normal capacity.

And we know that his normal capacity is not what you can brag about. His stats are garbage except for AGi and LCK. So getting buffed beyond his normal capacity is not even hard. And the buff was proven to make him fare better, but nothing extraordinary like you made it out to be. That is what you still fail to understand.

I said nothing about him getting buffed to god levels, that was your own weird galaxy brain logic at work there m8.

if you're still unable to realize that I was also exaggerating your wank to make a point, then lol.

And all of this has no impact on Surtr vs Tiamat at the end of the day. Surtr would still lose in the uphill battle against someone beyond his realm despite theorically have advantageous bonus modifiers. You're the classic exhibition of someone who ran out of arguments and try to switch to other subjects that has no impact on the matter.

[eddyak]

It does. It invalidates your claim that the CF put all of hope and shit on to him, as it has 2 other servants to place hope on, and that is all that matters. Period. None of that shit exist, and you clearly were unable to prove it, other than repeating the fact that he is buffed.

Reading comprehension again with you. He is recent so he is weak, and thus his original saint graph is also weak. And with the so-called buffs he received he was still nowhere near top tier heroic spirit level. So you ironically proved that despite the assumed "wazoo" amount of buffs that your headcanon is telling you, he is still just a good servant and not something extremely crucial in him blasting Surtr's skull. An Excalibur blast would probalbly yield similar effect.

And we know that his normal capacity is not what you can brag about. His stats are garbage except for AGi and LCK. So getting buffed beyond his normal capacity is not even hard. And the buff was proven to make him fare better, but nothing extraordinary like you made it out to be. That is what you still fail to understand.

if you're still unable to realize that I was also exaggerating your wank to make a point, then lol.

I mean, you say all that, but he was able to fight off the giants, dozens of envoys, go on fighting them long after he should've run out of mana, more giants, he straight-up tells us he's been modified specifically for this LB, then he goes on to fight the Valkyries who're described as straight-up goddesses themselves, then fights off Skadi's primordial freeze rune enough to take a swing at Caenis, and eventually burns himself out to blast Surtr's head open and knock him out of commission for several minutes- Surtr, who's strong enough that he's about five seconds off wiping the earth of Skadi and all her best defences, Brynhildr, Sigurd, Herc's shadow and Sitonai all together. And then Mash, who took on Goetia's planet killer and 50/50'd it, and then after her downgrade was able to take Ivan's Zeus-level attacks, was apparently going to add an insignificant amount of strength to their defences against Surtr.

That isn't wanking Surtr, nor downplaying (or upplaying or whatever the hell you're trying to say as you wibble-wobble) Napoleon.

And all of this has no impact on Surtr vs Tiamat at the end of the day. Surtr would still lose in the uphill battle against someone beyond his realm despite theorically have advantageous bonus modifiers. You're the classic exhibition of someone who ran out of arguments and try to switch to other subjects that has no impact on the matter.

I gave up on that pretty early on, tbh. I haven't read the LB for myself yet, just the rough TLs, but if you're right and Tiamat's little Divine Spirits are an actual threat to him, and if he, the ender of all life, can't just oneshot Tiamat, then TM made him a gigantic puss compared to his actual role in Ragnarok.

[Ronove]

Even without the new LB2 translations, trying to demean Surtr based on his loss is ridiculous:

-Ophelia nulled their master/servant contract, depriving Surtr of magical energy
-Ophelia buffed Sigurd with Sirius Light
-Surtr grew the wings of Fafnir, giving him the worst possible compatibility with Gram. As we've seen in Apo event. Balmung is considerably more dangerous to Fafnir than Vasavi Shatki was
-Skadi and illya were buffing the party
-A number more supports.

Saying "Bryn and Sigurd" beat Surtr is like saying Gilgamesh killed Tiamat. Technically correct, but what's the point if you omit context?

[Lily Emilio]

I mean, you say all that, but he was able to fight off the giants, dozens of envoys, go on fighting them long after he should've run out of mana, more giants

Again, the scene when he's talking about being tuned for the LB he was also providing mana to Mashu, he has enough to even do that. Not reading things carefully seems to be your trademark.

then he goes on to fight the Valkyries who're described as straight-up goddesses themselves

Exaggeration again. They are close to divine spirits, not that they are actual divine spirit/goddesses. And he was not soloing all of them.

then fights off Skadi's primordial freeze rune enough to take a swing at Caenis

And? Doesn't matter in the end.

and eventually burns himself out to blast Surtr's head open and knock him out of commission for several minutes

And that was due to his NP, using his life as fuel.

Surtr, who's strong enough that he's about five seconds off wiping the earth

Again with the bullshit exaggerations. It's just a mountain village. The range is similar to Excalibur, why you always lying?

And then Mash, who took on Goetia's planet killer and 50/50'd it, and then after her downgrade was able to take Ivan's Zeus-level attacks, was apparently going to add an insignificant amount of strength to their defences against Surtr.

Yeah I'm sure all of their effort was somehow better than the effort of the king of heroes and his country, Gorgon, chief Aztec god, top goddess of Mesopotamia, the underworld goddess who can make bitches out of the chief gods, the Grand Assassin, the Grand Caster candidate, the Chain of Heaven, the Jaguar God,...

Also Ivan's attack was not Zeus level. Lying up on lying. All you can do now is keep lying. Have a bit of shame, please.

That isn't wanking Surtr, nor downplaying (or upplaying or whatever the hell you're trying to say as you wibble-wobble) Napoleon.

And all of that overly exaggerated wall of statements still doesn't prove anything.

I gave up on that pretty early on, tbh. I haven't read the LB for myself yet, just the rough TLs, but if you're right and Tiamat's little Divine Spirits are an actual threat to him, and if he, the ender of all life, can't just oneshot Tiamat, then TM made him a gigantic puss compared to his actual role in Ragnarok.

This has nothing to do with his portrayal. It's just how bullshit she is. There is nothing he can do, because she has all of the bullshits that the Norse gods he faced did not. That doesn't mean he is weak or he is incapable of incinerating gods, just that in this case the god is no ordinary one.

Also he's not just the ender of all life, he also acts as the bringer of new life. That's why he was very compatible with the flame of life in the tree and was able to understand it. His nature is extremely close to Tiamat than countering her. A conceptual disaster not to end all life like Sefar, but to make way for new life. Even him burning the texture is not actually burning everything, but making a new texture of flame as Ophelia said.

Your logic is just "anti X means capable of oneshotting X" just like every other "Nobu 1shotting gods" and "Gil 1shotting the world" because WE ANTI. Things don't work like that, chief. We've been through this bullshit logic before, but apparently you're still unable to grow out of that shit.

And if you actually gave up on that, then why not just leave things at that instead of talking more nonsense, knowing exactly how futile it is? You had the chance to get out of it, but you chose you continue.

- - - Updated - - -

Saying "Bryn and Sigurd" beat Surtr is like saying Gilgamesh killed Tiamat. Technically correct, but what's the point if you omit context?

I didn't even say they killed him. I said they were able to deal quite significant damage to him, meaning the Jojo Lahmus can do the same with their big number. It's not "Gil killed Tiamat", it's "Gil contributed a lot in killing Tiamat". But apparently our pal eddy is unable of understanding that shit and that's what we ended up here.

[Zurvan]

Maybe the CF really did buff Napoleon with all it had

...but considering it's been on its dying breath since Part 2 started and having summoned two Servants already, there's just not that much left.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

most of the CF's efforts seemed to go into LB5 anyway

[eddyak]

Again, the scene when he's talking about being tuned for the LB he was also providing mana to Mashu, he has enough to even do that. Not reading things carefully seems to be your trademark.

Yes, I'm sure him saying he was tuned for the lostbelt means he was tuned to give mana to Mash.

Exaggeration again. They are close to divine spirits, not that they are actual divine spirit/goddesses. And he was not soloing all of them.

Literally says they're goddesses. It's right there in the text.

And? Doesn't matter in the end.

Fighting their way out of a major goddess' magecraft in the middle of her world, in the middle of her palace, something she describes exactly the same as Araya calling the apartment complex his own body, is not something a low tier hero is capable of doing.

And that was due to his NP, using his life as fuel.

A modern hero shooting down a god, even if it is in exchange for his life, is not a mean feat.

Again with the bullshit exaggerations. It's just a mountain village. The range is similar to Excalibur, why you always lying?

Talk about not reading properly. How about you try finishing the sentence?

Yeah I'm sure all of their effort was somehow better than the effort of the king of heroes and his country, Gorgon, chief Aztec god, top goddess of Mesopotamia, the underworld goddess who can make bitches out of the chief gods, the Grand Assassin, the Grand Caster candidate, the Chain of Heaven, the Jaguar God,...

Point.

Also Ivan's attack was not Zeus level. Lying up on lying. All you can do now is keep lying. Have a bit of shame, please.

Ivan is directly compared to Zeus by Atalante, and he tosses out Divine Spirit level attacks like they're nothing.

This has nothing to do with his portrayal. It's just how bullshit she is. There is nothing he can do, because she has all of the bullshits that the Norse gods he faced did not. That doesn't mean he is weak or he is incapable of incinerating gods, just that in this case the god is no ordinary one.

Also he's not just the ender of all life, he also acts as the bringer of new life. That's why he was very compatible with the flame of life in the tree and was able to understand it. His nature is extremely close to Tiamat than countering her. A conceptual disaster not to end all life like Sefar, but to make way for new life. Even him burning the texture is not actually burning everything, but making a new texture of flame as Ophelia said.

Your logic is just "anti X means capable of oneshotting X" just like every other "Nobu 1shotting gods" and "Gil 1shotting the world" because WE ANTI. Things don't work like that, chief. We've been through this bullshit logic before, but apparently you're still unable to grow out of that shit.

That isn't like comparing Nobu and her anti-divinity, because Nobu is a warlord who failed to even conquer a country, and got an anti-divinity effect because she burned down temples and the monks started calling her Basically Japanese Satan. She's exaggeration built upon exaggeration, on a foundation of bullshit. Surtr, on the other hand, is somebody who burns the world, and almost all the living on it, to ashes. Frankly, the idea that he doesn't stand a chance against a goddess of life, even if she has a bunch of conceptual bullshit stacked up on top of that, is ridiculous.

[Ronove]

Again with the bullshit exaggerations. It's just a mountain village. The range is similar to Excalibur, why you always lying?

He's not lying. It was said outright by Skadi, twice. In that scene it was going to wipe out all of Scandinavia, which is the lostbelt territory. Second, he already set the planet on fire and his materials again describe he is capable of doing so.

Yeah I'm sure all of their effort was somehow better than the effort of the king of heroes and his country, Gorgon, chief Aztec god, top goddess of Mesopotamia, the underworld goddess who can make bitches out of the chief gods, the Grand Assassin, the Grand Caster candidate, the Chain of Heaven, the Jaguar God,...

This is just being dishonest and comparing apples to oranges. Surtr has different circumstances than Tiamat, and was dealt in his own personal way.

-Ophelia nulled their master/servant contract, depriving Surtr of magical energy
-Ophelia buffed Sigurd with Sirius Light
-Surtr grew the wings of Fafnir, giving him the worst possible compatibility with Gram. As we've seen in Apo event. Balmung is considerably more dangerous to Fafnir than Vasavi Shatki was
-Skadi and illya were buffing the party
-A number more supports.

Also Ivan's attack was not Zeus level. Lying up on lying. All you can do now is keep lying. Have a bit of shame, please.

Yes it was. Ivan was called someone who could fight on par with or perhaps beat Zeus by Caenis. Who has at least seen Zeus' terminal. That lightning was his strongest attack.

Your logic is just "anti X means capable of oneshotting X" just like every other "Nobu 1shotting gods" and "Gil 1shotting the world" because WE ANTI. Things don't work like that, chief. We've been through this bullshit logic before, but apparently you're still unable to grow out of that shit.

Nobody here mentioned anything about anti-whatever. It is literally told to us that Surtr can incinerate the EARTH and that he did. Only that small village is all that was left.

I didn't even say they killed him. I said they were able to deal quite significant damage to him, meaning the Jojo Lahmus can do the same with their big number. It's not "Gil killed Tiamat", it's "Gil contributed a lot in killing Tiamat". But apparently our pal eddy is unable of understanding that shit and that's what we ended up here.

Please explain to me how you plan to equate the 11 Lahmu to a Skadi-buffed, Sirius Light buffed, Rune-using dragon slayer and waifu against a magic power-deprived, Surtr-Fafnir?

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Surtr, on the other hand, is somebody who burns the world, and almost all the living on it, to ashes. Frankly, the idea that he doesn't stand a chance against a goddess of life, even if she has a bunch of conceptual bullshit stacked up on top of that, is ridiculous.

These are just titles, though and they usually operate in the vacuum of their own texture. Tiamat's concepts trump Surtr's, and the anime just makes it a whole lot worse.

Surtr cannot destroy all life, because he will still be there. Surtr cannot remove kill something without a concept of death. He has no counter to Nega-Genesis (anime). All he has is one big move and that's ALL that can hurt Tiamat in her dragon form, and it still won't do the job. Beasts are OP. Go figure.

[Lily Emilio]

Yes, I'm sure him saying he was tuned for the lostbelt means he was tuned to give mana to Mash.

Reading comprehension for the idk how many times now. His ability to give mana to Mashu is literally the freaking ability the Counter Force granted him. To be able to work solo in the LB is one of the perks. Reread 1000 more times till you get it through your head.

Literally says they're goddesses. It's right there in the text.

"Divinity A: They possess an aptitude as a Divine Spirit. Valkyrie are the daughters of the Almighty God Odin and their existence can even be called as Demigods; they possess an extremely high aptitude as a Divine Spirit.".

Fighting their way out of a major goddess' magecraft in the middle of her world, in the middle of her palace, something she describes exactly the same as Araya calling the apartment complex his own body, is not something a low tier hero is capable of doing.

Or it's just will power like Guda breaking out of Gorgon's mystic eye. Still say nothing about him being top tier.

A modern hero shooting down a god, even if it is in exchange for his life, is not a mean feat.

And no one freaking said it isn't. Still doesn't mean anything to Surtr vs Tiamat whatsoever.

Talk about not reading properly. How about you try finishing the sentence?

I don't need to quote the rest because I already mentioned the comparison to the team effort as a whole in the next line. Talk about not reading properly, how about actually understanding all I wrote first.

Ivan is directly compared to Zeus by Atalante, and he tosses out Divine Spirit level attacks like they're nothing.

And that is divine spirit Zeus. LB Zeus is beyond that. Talk about reading.

That isn't like comparing Nobu and her anti-divinity, because Nobu is a warlord who failed to even conquer a country, and got an anti-divinity effect because she burned down temples and the monks started calling her Basically Japanese Satan. She's exaggeration built upon exaggeration, on a foundation of bullshit. Surtr, on the other hand, is somebody who burns the world, and almost all the living on it, to ashes. Frankly, the idea that he doesn't stand a chance against a goddess of life, even if she has a bunch of conceptual bullshit stacked up on top of that, is ridiculous.

That's literally "he has anti so he must win" lol. It doesn't matter if the idea that he doesn't stand a chance sounds ridiculous. He still doesn't have anything that can counter her bullshits, both physically and conceptually. Eresh was the biggest exhibition for this. The underworld is where all of the gods must obey, even a solar deity like Nergal or a chief deity like Quetz was reduced to nothing in the underworld. It was the domain beyond the gods and in theory all gods dropping down their will have no choice but losing to Eresh. Well guess what happened to her underworld when Tiamat dropped down. She freaking pulled a screw the rule card.

And if you actually think that "the idea that he can't win is ridiculous so he must definitely win" as an argument would do anything to the debate, then lol.

[Tobias]

Take it down a few notches. This is getting way to heated

[Lily Emilio]

He's not lying. It was said outright by Skadi, twice. In that scene it was going to wipe out all of Scandinavia, which is the lostbelt territory. Second, he already set the planet on fire and his materials again describe he is capable of doing so.

He set fire to the planet by constantly expanding the territory of where he moves to, Territory Creation EX.

This is just being dishonest and comparing apples to oranges. Surtr has different circumstances than Tiamat, and was dealt in his own personal way.

Eddy brought it up, not me. So ask him why he thought it was a good idea.

Yes it was. Ivan was called someone who could fight on par with or perhaps beat Zeus by Caenis. Who has at least seen Zeus' terminal. That lightning was his strongest attack.

Caenis did not see Zeus' mecha form nor was aware of the fact that Zeus spent 90% of his power to manage Olympus. That's Ivan being equal to 10% Zeus. Zeus' firepower is comparable to Artemis' anti-planet beam, with his full power capable of wiping out the universe.

Nobody here mentioned anything about anti-whatever. It is literally told to us that Surtr can incinerate the EARTH and that he did. Only that small village is all that was left.

And again he did it by incinerating parts and parts, then move and expand his own texture. That is not equal to "I do 1 swing and the globe is on fire"

Please explain to me how you plan to equate the 11 Lahmu to a Skadi-buffed, Sirius Light buffed, Rune-using dragon slayer and waifu against a magic power-deprived, Surtr-Fafnir?

Ah yes, the 11 Lahmus who are equal to 72 demon pillars, who each of their own are equal to several servants, obviously can't do anything like those two.

[eddyak]

These are just titles, though and they usually operate in the vacuum of their own texture. Tiamat's concepts trump Surtr's, and the anime just makes it a whole lot worse.

Surtr cannot destroy all life, because he will still be there. Surtr cannot remove kill something without a concept of death. He has no counter to Nega-Genesis (anime). All he has is one big move and that's ALL that can hurt Tiamat in her dragon form, and it still won't do the job. Beasts are OP. Go figure.

True enough, but if he does have his own texture of flame, her mud and the lahmu both burn as soon as his texture spreads. Actually, given that Rhon's laying down of texture thing separates the human world from the back side of the world, and the Wandering sea's texture seems to act as its own isolated pocket of existence and just ignored the foreign god, just spreading that texture around her might be enough to count, like dropping her into the underworld did. Then what matters is whether he counts as normal life, I guess.