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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #126561
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    Another thing is that it was never used so we have no idea how it works. Like, does it de-activate God Hand before or after the big magic attack? What if you counter it with Excalibur and thus aren't reached by the blast, do you still get debuffs? What if you dodge?
    We don't even know what form it takes! Is it an explosion? An energy beam? An invisible force exerting pressure over everything in the area? Who knows! (The Shadow knows!)
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  2. #126562
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Ok then

    After she got Avalon and fought Gil, she tried to avoid his weapons landing on her vitals

    Then she gets knocked out

    Then she admits that even with the sheath it is taking a decent time for her to heal

    Doesn't seem that the healing is that OP to me
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Again, as I mentioned, the rate of healing is controlled by saber’s magical energy flow, which was limited during fate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    by her own words? Yes. by her own actions? yes. using noble phantasms is hard, even if you have a super mana regeneration rate.

    and that kind of goes back to the point about avalon. throughout the VN, we see very clearly and explicitly that its healing ability is effected by the level of magical energy running through it. 12 hours for normal heal, a couple for a rushed heal on shirou, and then a minute or two for Saber all dependent on magical energy supply. Saber was readying for several uses of excalibur and from texts may have actually been trying to funnel magical energy from avalon to Excalibur, at the least she wasnt topping it off.
    Only for other people.
    For Saber herself, there doesn't need to be any magical energy in the sheath for it to heal her.

    ...


    Imagine taking some of an enuma elish and a ton of NPs and being able to heal all that without expending /any/ magical energy in a few minutes. Yes, it might not be instant, but that's pretty OP.
    For Saber eg
    0 Magical energy = 100 HP/sec
    20 Magical energy = 500 HP/sec
    50 Magical energy = 1000 HP/sec
    Last edited by You; November 17th, 2020 at 01:03 AM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
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  3. #126563
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    I think that’s referring to saber not using her usual method of healing, covering a wound in magical energy.

    EDIT: well...? Maybe not. On second though if Avalon had some kind of minimum healing for saber even without her charging it, that would go a long way of explaining several questions.

    saber said having Avalon would increase her magical energy. So if we take your theory as correct, then plausibly what she meant is that she drained every last bit of the magical energy within Avalon and it was on auto pilot for the fight. That gives her some extra juice for excalliblasts.


    Frikken hell, if that’s what Avalon was doing without any mana at all...

    EX ranked means something, I guess
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

  4. #126564
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    EX ranked means something, I guess
    it means "getting screwed in court"

  5. #126565
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    saber said having Avalon would increase her magical energy. So if we take your theory as correct, then plausibly what she meant is that she drained every last bit of the magical energy within Avalon and it was on auto pilot for the fight. That gives her some extra juice for excalliblasts.
    yes that's what I think happened on the healing side
    Last edited by You; November 17th, 2020 at 05:20 PM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  6. #126566
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    yes that's what I think happened on the healing side
    short answer then. does saber pouring mana into avalon hyper accelerate the healing it provides or not?

  7. #126567
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    short answer then. does saber pouring mana into avalon hyper accelerate the healing it provides or not?
    probably. I mean it does for everyone else.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  8. #126568
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    Avalon is like Saber; Tiny, Strong, Hungry.

  9. #126569
    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    how strong would you say that Saber Kojirou is? didn't he have a rather good showing against Dantes?
    no takers? you going to do the saviour of france dirty like that?

  10. #126570
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Have we even had a Saber!Kojirou? Or do you mean the post-final boss in Shimousa?
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  11. #126571
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Kubera's Avatar
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    Was it ever confirmed if he was actually a Saber outside of gameplay or if it was him while he was still alive? He said something about Amakusa finding him in the mountains where he lived.

    Either way yeah he kinda tied with Edmond until they were interrupted in the manga. In the game it was implied that if he went up next against the gang then everything would have ended too quickly, and that was after Raikou & Shuten's defeat; lastly he was on par with Zero!Musashi, who I think should have surpassed Munemori.

    In short he's a goddamn beast, altough I don't think he still measures up to the likes of Gorgon, Alcides, Avalon!Artoria or a Cu who actually uses his runes.

  12. #126572
    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post

    Either way yeah he kinda tied with Edmond until they were interrupted in the manga. In the game it was implied that if he went up next against the gang then everything would have ended too quickly, and that was after Raikou & Shuten's defeat; lastly he was on par with Zero!Musashi, who I think should have surpassed Munemori.
    shit like this is why i really do need to read some of the NA chapters that never got a good translation on reddit. Shimousa only got the beginning bits translated and i didnt get around to reading when NA translated it

  13. #126573
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    probably. I mean it does for everyone else.
    right. Working back from your theory, the two factors we know to increase healing for Avalon is proximity to saber and saber’s magical energy. In this case then the apparent takeaway would be that Avalon was benefiting from 100% of the former but saber had drained all magical energy from it so 0% of the latter. So the couple of minutes for regen, while impressive for shirou/kiritsugu/what’s her name ilya’s mom, would actually represent saber’s floor level of healing, with comparatively faster regeneration she wasn’t able to access vs Gil because she was saving everything for two more excalliblasts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

  14. #126574
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Kubera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    shit like this is why i really do need to read some of the NA chapters that never got a good translation on reddit. Shimousa only got the beginning bits translated and i didnt get around to reading when NA translated it
    Definitely worth it imho, it's pretty good battle shounen fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually this whole 'Avalon gets better with more magical energy' thing got me curious. Saving whatever anti-Avalon anti-regen stuff Gil could pull off, what servant might be a good match for an Artoria that has both Avalon and a grail as battery? Can give a grail to them as well if needed or if it makes the match more interesting.
    Last edited by Kubera; November 18th, 2020 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #126575
    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    Definitely worth it imho, it's pretty good battle shounen fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually this whole 'Avalon gets better with more magical energy' thing got me curious. Saving whatever anti-Avalon anti-regen stuff Gil could pull off, what servant might be a good match for an Artoria that has both Avalon and a grail as battery? Can give a grail to them as well if needed or if it makes the match more interesting.
    which class gives Artoria a Grail?

    Archer, Cu, Gorgon, Alkeides all have anti-regen bullshit in some form or another

  16. #126576
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Lugh light bringer maybe (yes I know, but the tunatha de denaan were technically humans before they were gods, you could plausibly summon one) anyway you almost wouldn’t be able to kill her unless you could stop one of her phantasm from activating so you would probably need something like fragerach to shut her down
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

  17. #126577
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    Definitely worth it imho, it's pretty good battle shounen fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually this whole 'Avalon gets better with more magical energy' thing got me curious. Saving whatever anti-Avalon anti-regen stuff Gil could pull off, what servant might be a good match for an Artoria that has both Avalon and a grail as battery? Can give a grail to them as well if needed or if it makes the match more interesting.

    Lancer!Diarmuid, Probably. Knightly Tactics (somehow) shuts down Instinct, so she can't Jedi Precog her way out of shit. Gae Dearg bypasses Invisible Air and her Armour, and Gae Buidhe shuts down any regeneration because it lowers Max HP instead of just doing damage.

    She still has Excalibur, but apparently if her finger gets a papercut she can't use it.

    It's almost as though Deermud was created from the ground up to be an anti-Artoria Servant who's only meaningful action in Zero is to cripple Saber early on.

  18. #126578
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    broke: he hit her in the tendon
    woke: papercuts sting like a bitch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  19. #126579
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    It's almost as though Deermud was created from the ground up to be an anti-Artoria Servant who's only meaningful action in Zero is to cripple Saber early on.
    Do we no longer count "dying like a bitch" as a meaningful action?

  20. #126580
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    We never counted that
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

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