I mean not all demiurge are equal, or are you gonna say odin is equal to LB zeus? hell im pretty sure quirinus is quite a bit above quetz
I mean not all demiurge are equal, or are you gonna say odin is equal to LB zeus? hell im pretty sure quirinus is quite a bit above quetz
Do you understand that Quetzalcoatl is nowhere as powerful as star system-buster Zeus or 9 tailed Tamamo that can travel 1,500 light years in seconds and destroy 8D barrier with a kick? And Ishtar is even weaker than QuetzalcoatlOriginally Posted by Ronove
Where did you even get that "brute force" thing? Extella stated that Sefar can be damaged only by pure life force, and that type attack only possesed by divine constructs. Destroying multidimensional barriers in fictions needs great amount of power and abilities beyond everything that Tiamat has shown. And we don't know if VS can kill Sefar for sure, cause Karna's sidestory ends at the moment when he face her
Moon Cell at least can generate 8D barriers, which surpasses even Avalon (which can't be destroyed even by Enuma Elish and Ars Almadel Salomonis), despite that Sefar could've destroy the whole Moon Cell, if she hadn't lost on Earth, do you even understand that? Do you understand amount of power needed to destroy this type of barriers?
In that case you need to hit harder than Amaterasu, cause in Tamamo route she says "we already lost to that Titan before", and according to Hakuno she knows this from her own expirience
Velber ark has matrix computing power on the same level as the Moon Cell, so we can assume that there is around 8-dimensions
These chief gods was obviously not even close to the level of Quirinus, that can wielding power in the same realm as Zeus (which thunder yet again can shatter galaxies and universe)
We don't know how exactly Ares was able to fight with Sefar, it's only your speculations
Yeah, but these supreme gods have different power levels, and Quirinus is equal to the lb Zeus, that is even greater threat than Arjuna Alter
Last edited by Nalo; July 19th, 2020 at 11:57 PM.
It's like Mizukume made a facet/offshoot/splinter/reflection/alterego, good lord
You're right and I agree. I'm just explaining that "supreme god" tends to mean head/top/strongest of the pantheon, so that moniker alone isn't enough to make Quirinus exceptional compared to the Babylonia squad or the grands. It would undersell him if anything.
Last edited by Ronove; July 20th, 2020 at 12:18 AM.
You're the one who is high on meth. Idk who you are, but the fact that you created a brand new account just to wank Zeus. That says a lot about credibility.
Having stronger firepower doesn't mean shit when you don't have protection of bullshits on your side. He is a machine. He can make powerful defensive barriers, but beneath all of that is a body far below Tiamat in durability. Get this through your thick skull and stop being high.Zeus is the supreme god that has the same presence and standing as Vairocana, according to Musashi, and at that moment he was not even in his 35% of power. That alone already puts him in leagues above Tiamat.
False. How do you even know he did not sustain any damage? None of that was mentioned in the story. Reread the fucking story before you talk shit.More than that he destroyed Sefar, without sustaining any damage at all
Whatever Sefar can do doesn't matter as long as you have the raw phys damage to nuke her. Girl got fucked by not!Excalibur.same Sefar who has multidimensional defences and could've destroyed the Earth and Moon Cell
Irrelevant shits. First of all, compare Moon Cell feats to outside, what is this? If you're unable to comprehend the differences between the 2 environments, then stop. Tiamat being a 4D pocket has nothing to do with her having conceptual bullshits protecting her, and that is what matters. Sefar doesn't have paradox bullshits, Zeus doesn't have paradox bullshits. Stop wasting people's time by bringing up irrelevant shits. All of your posts below are this too. Just laughable.that generates 8D barrier around it's core (not to mention that Velber Ark also can generate Moon Cell lvl barriers, meanwhile Tiamat are only 4D pocket at best lmao)
And since you love to bring up Moon Cell, that same Moon Cell and its shiny barrier got fucked so hard by...8 Tamamo tails who utilized the fucking imaginary number dimension (Tiamat is an imaginary number dimension). BB, who obtained the Authority of the Earth Mother, was able to fuck up Moon Cell beyond recognition, because concepts >>>>> all in there. You drop Tiamat on the Moon Cell, it will get fucked faster than Kiara (Kingprotea can literally outscale Kiara in the Moon Cell due to conceptual expansion, and she only got essence of Tiamat's infinite nature). None of the Moon Cell shits matter, because if you bring that shit up you must also throw Tiamat in there for comparison, and that is the kind of environment when conceptual bullshits like that of her already proven to be the ultimate fuck you to everything.
Again, none of this shit was in the story, they just said he won, no mention how much damage he took or how it was done. Like, did you read the fucking story? Or you thought people are dumb enough to not crosscheck with the story?but failed to even scratch Zeus in his "Omnipotent" state
False. I begin to question if you actually played the game. The first test battle against him while he has a lot of HP and a bunch of defensive buffs, the 2 parts Gaia and Uranus can already be killed to remove layers of his defenses. The fight was ended after 4 turns to show that the current gang along cannot keep up fighting for long and needs more firepower. Back in Babylonia we didn't get to even fight Tiamat's 2nd form because it's already a worthless and futile attempt to try attacking her in the first place.Lorewise without Quirinus, who wielding power in the same realm as Zeus, we won't even able to scratch him.
The hell Zeus and his durability you even talking about?The hell Tiamat and her durability you even talking about?
Heck, what the fuck were all of this irrelevant arguments? You can say all about how Zeus has this big firepower, but the fact remains that he is not protected by conceptual bullshits, he is a machine utilizing technology. Durabilty of the bod y is different from "have a lot of big barriers". You remove conceptual bullshits from Tiamat, downgrade her down, you still have to deal with a giant body that is durable enough to require EX rank attacks to do any meaningful damage. You remove barriers from Zeus, he is left with a machine shell less durable than Demeter.
Try again once you can differentiate Moon Cell feats with Earth feats, because right now it is laughable. TFW you create a whole new account to talk shit but whatever you cooked up was so laughably bad (and ridiculously missed the point of the discussion).
Last edited by Lily Emilio; July 20th, 2020 at 12:35 AM.
That's not what I addressed though?
Being a goddess of the sun or cosmic whatever isn't enough to be stronger than Tiamat. Quetzalcoatl dropping the ball proves that's the case because she is both. The title of the goddess or myth doesn't mean anything either.It does, cause deification of the sun and gods of cosmic proportions are far stronger than earth gods
Her Class was determined by her real nature mentioned above. The Primordial Goddess and the like are but false titles. Deserted by the humans, that being is one of the great disasters most rejected by human history. That name is Beast II. One of the seven Evils of Humanity, the beast that carries the principle of “Regression”.
Quetz thinks even aliens can't beat her. Sefar's one, and probably the most famous.
Materials.Where did you even get that "brute force" thing? Extella stated that Sefar can be damaged only by pure life force, and that type attack only possesed by divine constructs.
Magic Energy Absorption [Skill name]
Exclusive skill of Attilaight Cell.
The body of the Titan, composed of spiritron collectors, will unconditionally absorb "magical energy processed into techniques" and covert it into HP and Armor values.
Techniques equate to skills, knowledge, and civilization. To an Anti Cell, there is no better form of nourishment.
Any form of attack (interference) designed by intellect - however undeveloped the theory behind it may be - will only grant more power to Altera.
The large firepower of greater magecraft and strategic weapons of science and technology will fuel the fire further.
On the other hand, while pure magical energy - what can be called life-force itself - will also be mostly absorbed, it can still exert its regular effect.
Facing against an Anti Cell, it comes down to simply "bludgeoning" it.
Although this is a troublesome skill that can absorb even physical attacks boosted with Mana Burst, one thing can deal an effective blow. The energy discharge of the holy sword.
The White Titan that had once appeared upon the surface was repulsed by the holy sword tempered in the inner sea of the Earth.Force your way through, no technique or ability-type skill. This is why Excalibur which attacks with pure mana is effective.Bludgeon:make one's way by brute force
Based on?Destroying multidimensional barriers in fictions needs great amount of power
Said by Gilgamesh in the story, and Karna's world line is saved meaning Sefar was defeated.And we don't know if VS can kill Sefar for sure, cause Karna's sidestory ends at the moment when he face her
Again you keep saying this, but how strong are Sefar's supposed barriers? Can you quantify them with anything written in the story?Moon Cell at least can generate 8D barriers
The Moon can't defend itself and Sefar has corrosive abilities. It's the same as on Earth. Sefar didnt' just go around beating people. She was corrupting the environment around her. Not too dissimilar from Tiamat.despite that Sefar could've destroy the whole Moon Cell, if she hadn't lost on Earth, do you even understand that? Do you understand amount of power needed to destroy this type of barriers?
By the way? BB who hacked the moon cell? A bootleg - as in seriously fake news - mother goddess authority is how she did it. Tiamat would make BB look like a baby if she were dropped there.
Amaterasu is a humanity's evil, so yeah, I'd give an actual beast the benefit of the doubt.In that case you need to hit harder than Amaterasu, cause in Tamamo route she says "we already lost to that Titan before", and according to Hakuno she knows this from her own expirience
Shiva is explicitly stated to be able to destroy the universe. Kama and Kiara are also capable of the same, called threats on a universal scale. They cap out as half-beasts, stated overall weaker than both Goetia and Tiamat.These chief gods was obviously not even close to the level of Quirinus, that can wielding power in the same realm as Zeus (which thunder yet again can shatter galaxies and universe)
And let's stick to the path, please?You end up in somewhere that looks like outer space. Kama declares herself Ananga, one without a body, who became this way thanks to being incinerated by Shiva’s Third Eye, which had enough power to set the entire universe aflame. She was so fundamentally destroyed that neither flesh nor concept of her remained. Then, Kama poses a question – why is the “emptiness” that remained behind after Shiva burnt Kama to a crisp standing here in front of you?
Is what you said, arguing that Quirinus is above grands because he is a supreme god, but being a supreme god won't tell me too much compared to grands. One of those couldn't beat Tiamat, and is likely weaker than at least some grands. So how does this take away from beasts being ridiculously strong enough to warrant seven grands to fight on equal footing?Quirinus is not just one grand servant, he is supreme god. He needed grand container in case of proper manifistation of his power:
Like with the first example of sun deifications, the principle/premise is all wrong.
We do. It was his divine construct. That was why Excalibur was fashioned after Photon Ray. It's said again in Extella that VS is also a threat to her.We don't know how exactly Ares was able to fight with Sefar, it's only your speculations
Last edited by Ronove; July 20th, 2020 at 01:22 AM.
Earth Mother is the source of Tiamat according to BB's Matrix though. And I am pretty sure no source actually addressed this contradiction, so declaring one to be superior to another is jumping to conclusions.
False. Potnia Theron is an Authority that all mother goddesses had, this Authority came to existence around 8000 years ago from Catalhoyuk - one of the oldest evidence of earth mother image (there are actually much older depictions, but I guess Nasu did not know). Catalhoyuk is the holder of Potnia Theron, making her the de factor origin of the concept of Earth Mothers. Tiamat OTOH is not even an Earth Mother originally. She is THE first lifeform to exist and the last one to die. She predates even Catalhoyuk in term of relevance. Tiamat was known previously as Nammu - the Goddess of Beginning, the creator of everything in Sumerian myth, later on she was depicted as Tiamat - the goddess of the primordial sea. Tiamat obtains Potnia Theron just like Demeter or Ishtar who got worship as Earth Mothers, basically in a retroactive way similar to heroic spirits getting additional cool shits from faith and legends. Just because you got the Authority from people calling you an Earth Mother does not make the Earth Mother Catalhoyuk your origin. Demeter literally mentioned in LB5 that the ocean was also a mother, referencing the likes of Tiamat. Tiamat's true Authority is Sea of Life, Potnia Theron is extra and she didn't even resort to using it during Babylonia, it was only utilized by Gorgon. Her status as the goddess of life already gave her bullshit immunities, I don't even want to imagine how ridiculous it would be when you throw in Potnia Theron too.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; July 20th, 2020 at 03:37 AM.
Hey guys how about...
Yeah nevermind.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
since people more knowledgeable than me are discussing the topic anyway, how does tiamat being the first lifeform jive with ea supposedly being the very first god (as in gil's extella mats)? is it just because tiamat wasn't a "god" back then?
i have to ask, but aren't we selling Zeus' defenses a bit too short?
he has all the abilities of the other machine gods, so doesn't have have stuff like gravity manipulation, shields of lighting, instant atomization, lightspeed movement like Dioscuri and other shit to make up for the lack of conceptual defense BS?
how durable is Adamas again?
I for one find that people want to go out of their way to wank Beasts as the end all of everything TM these days.
that and Buddhism things I guess.
A solid 10.
I don't think the mats ever called Ea the first god, but the one who performed "planet-building" before other nation-building gods, and outranks them. Tiamat is a separate category that worked the create life, not shape the world.
Adamas is the "invincible" divine steel that makes up the blades of the dioscuri, achilles' divine armor and shield, and Odysseus'/Athena's Aegis. Some of these have their own conceptual effects thrown on top which makes them hard to rank but the general idea is that they're seriously tough. Likely the most durable substance the Greek pantheon have.
This is because their design is to feed on the human order. The human order just happens to be a very overpowered system.
Start of the clip is Mathman's exposition on Quantum Time locks and how it explains that the foundation of humanity governs at least the solar system, and even the moon cell is regulated by it.
Professor:
There is a proper use of the word ‘galaxy’.
The galaxy in which we humans… in which people live in, is called the [Milky Way Galaxy], whereas other galaxies are simply called [galaxies].
The same rules of nomenclature should apply for your universe.
The [Milky Way], in other words, the milky river of heaven, and [galaxies] refer to the other rivers besides it.
In other words, in the Servant Universe, the [Milky Way] is called the [Ether Galaxy].
However, the [Ether Galaxy] was called a different name in the far past.
That name remains unknown.
After all, the [Renewal of the Universe] overwrote everything.
What is the [Renewal of the Universe]? To put it in simple terms, it would be the updating of the universe.
Humans, which had lived thus far in their [bodies of flesh], discarded their bodies one day---
For soul vessels, [Saint Graphs], changing their own way of being. They were released from their limited mortal lives, from their limited ability.
[Humans] disappeared from this Milky Way, and everyone became [Servants].
Hm? Then [mere humans] who aren’t Servants no longer exist, you might ask?
Well, they haven’t all disappeared. In fact, they became far more important.
After all, only [humans] can become [Masters].
Well, let’s leave this topic for another time.
Anyway, Servants became the only form of humanity in the [Ether Galaxy].
As Servants are souls taking physical form, naturally, the universe would require a correspondingly large amount of energy.
Therefore, as a result of all humanity becoming Servants, the universe was filled with Ether.
5:19:05
Kiara as a true demon and galactic threat is only half of a beast. Goetia's nuke is still better than Surtr and God Arjuna's. Solomon (or whoever he is right now) stopped the NP of Zeus' equal. Beast VII tanks Kirschtaria's CS boosted NP and it doesn't even have a proper vessel yet.
But they're not the strongest, just really high up there. For example, Sherlock said Khaos couldn't be beaten by AAS and Primate Murder is most likely weaker than ORT.
That's because Nasu wanks Buddhism the most.that and Buddhism things I guess.
he reason why this attack’s power, visuals, and scale are so huge is because reincarnated Kiara is a being similar to Saver.
People who devote their life to bringing salvation to Sattvas (living things) are referred to as Bodhisattvas. People who have attained moksha (libertation/release) and become Buddhas are also Bodhisattvas. A Bodhisattva is a god of universe scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System.
Buddhism has a sense of scale of the universe that stands out from that of other religions. There are concepts like Nayuta (1060) and “The Infinitely Vast Number” (1068) which were created to represent the scale and size of a Buddha.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.
This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.
Last edited by Ronove; July 20th, 2020 at 03:52 PM.
Wha? We know that Angra Mainyu CCC is stronger than Beast 3. It’s just Beast 3 has anti-Buddha instead of having Buddha be anti Kiara like with CCC.
maybe Zeus might not be as tanky as Tiamat but I actually believe that if LB Zeus vs Tiamat 100% MAXIMUM NO CHILL, Zeus should come out wining 80/100 times.
Last edited by Wuff_Wuff; July 21st, 2020 at 07:47 AM.
Not linearly stronger. Stronger as in "scale"
Seraphix is a downsized version of the moon cell.Although the scale of the existence of the Pleasure Deva that was born once on the moon is superior to Beast III, they say that she had no choice but to withdraw when faced with a messiah since she did not possess this skill.
Beast III/R never manifested while trapped there. Once out of Seraphix, that would be corrected.Bond 3:
"Benzaiten's Five String Biwa"
Rank: EX, Anti-Personnel, Range: 20~500
Saraswati Meltout.
As the stage is not a complete SE.RA.PH, the actual power has been squeezed, adjusting into a physical-oriented attack.
BB
According to what I’ve investigated, some of the Beasts apparently have paired “antithesis” concepts.
Left and right. Yin and yang. Kiara-san seems to be the R half of Beast III.
And right now, she’s still a step away from fully becoming that R half. She’s like a chrysalis before finishing its metamorphosis.
Tristan
…That’s still at the chrysalis stage? Then she’ll get stronger the more time passes?
BB
Hmm, that’s not quite right. Though I call it a metamorphosis, it’s more like a difference between “being able to move freely or not”.
Kiara-san used SE.RA.PH to transform into a Beast, but to put it another way, she’s still bound by SE.RA.PH.
Only once SE.RA.PH has reached the Earth’s inner core and fused with it will she have completed her “metamorphosis”.
As for Zeus vs Tiamat. He has way more firepower, that's inarguable. With his lightning, vaporizing chaos tide and anything that comes from it would be easy. I'd say he has the magical capacity to do it for as long as needed too. Tiamat will have to fight with her own strength, something Nasu claims is in league with Kingprotea's.
Zeus' barriers can be bypassed by brute force. Ares could do it with a slash, I don't see why Tiamat couldn't.Monstrous Strength: EX
The average 『Monstrous Strength』 skill that 『demonic entities』 represented by Anti-Heroes have.
But Kingprotea using it, that alone, makes her a threat.
At the moment, the Servants that have 『Monstrous Strength: EX』 are only Tiamat and Kingprotea.
The retconned nega-genesis is also something Zeus has no counter for. Noble phantasms aren't going to work, and even gods/beings of ether are susceptible to being killed instantly by it. On the other hand, no matter how much firepower Zeus has, he can't bypass Tiamat's conceptual immunities.
Last edited by Ronove; July 21st, 2020 at 10:32 AM.
As you state above is the reason I gave Tiamat a 20% chance to win againts Zeus,only when for some reason, with every power he got, he choose to duke it out with mama, then he will instant lose.
But if we consider that LB Zeus is near 'omnipotence' as stated by many characters, you would think he'd have many trick under his sleeve, why fight her if he could just:
A. trap her somewhere else,doesn't need to be some pocket dimension or underworld, just literally fling her out of the planet, heck why not out of solar system, and every time she come back, do it again, Guda can trap her, but somehow Zeus can't?
B. counter her with his bullshits, she is immune to death, that's awesome, but does she immune to mind controls, to sleep, to freeze, bla bla, with his nanomachines and other Olympian's authority, you would think he can do smt about it, no?
In the end, a battle in truest sense, one side win when they reach the win-condition, by that definition, Zeus's goal should be 'remove' Tiamat, not destroy her. And Zeus should be smatter than Tiamat whom only do things by instinct? (don't quote me on this) so I really think it's a uphill battle for Tiamat from the very start
I don't think Tiamat would be holding back against Zeus (as he's not one of her children) like she was in Babylonia, so she should be as intelligent as Tiamat gets. Who knows what that actually means though.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
