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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #124781
    死徒 Dead Apostle AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    When the VN says you can shield block GB, it doesnt mention if its heart stab or thrown, right? We just assume heartstab cuz of the lack of 50 meter run up.Which leads to the question of can you ThrownBolg from a standstill.
    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20295/

    In that regard, Lancer's lance is appropriate to be called a Noble Phantasm.
    A weapon that always strikes the heart cannot be blocked merely by knowing about it.
    If one is to oppose that demonic lance, one must…
    Prepare a shield overwhelming the magical energy of the lance,
    have great enough luck to change the fate determined by the lance,
    or prevent him from using the lance in the first place.
    It's the heartstab. Nuke doesn't go for the heart.

  2. #124782
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Welp, that answers my question.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  3. #124783
    A mecha-loving Shotacon who plays children's card games naschyamamoto's Avatar
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    Not too sure if this is the right place to ask, but anyone have an idea of exactly how much of Ishtar and Caster Nero's skillsets are glossed over by FGO?

    Because 1, despite all the 'useless goddess' jokes Ishtar still does stuff like creating minor Singularities, shapeshifting and charming other Servants, and converting Venus into a weapon of mass destruction. And 2, Nero's bio in-game mentions things like converting her voice into sonic cannons or something like that? Not to mention the abstract mentions to magecraft teachings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    There was contributing. And suggestions and . . . okay a bunch of people demanding me to write this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiden View Post
    Well yeah, that last one always happens.

  4. #124784
    うむ Hakuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20295/



    It's the heartstab. Nuke doesn't go for the heart.

    Well they also said the whole heartstab thing when the throw version was about to be used so ???

    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20208/
    …This Noble Phantasm is a throwing attack by nature.
    A lance that never misses the heart.
    A cursed Noble Phantasm that cannot be avoided and will attack the enemy even if it misses.
    That is Gae Bolg, lance of destruction possessed by the hero that never lost in his lifetime.
    As it is hurled using all of Lancer's magical energy, it can be neither dodged nor blocked.
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  5. #124785
    死徒 Dead Apostle AAM1232's Avatar
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    The context about Luck makes it pretty clear, since that's the only one where Luck is specifically needed.

  6. #124786
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuno View Post
    Well they also said the whole heartstab thing when the throw version was about to be used so ???

    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20208/
    …This Noble Phantasm is a throwing attack by nature.
    A lance that never misses the heart.
    A cursed Noble Phantasm that cannot be avoided and will attack the enemy even if it misses.
    That is Gae Bolg, lance of destruction possessed by the hero that never lost in his lifetime.
    As it is hurled using all of Lancer's magical energy, it can be neither dodged nor blocked.


    With the additional information you're able to parse that passage more clearly.



    The damage and form both come close to that of "Brionac, the Roaring Five Stars" possessed by Lugh, the Celtic God of Light, but its ability of "striking an opponent no matter how many times it is dodged" makes it closer to the chief god of Northern Europe, Odin's "Gungnir, Declaration of Great God".


    Yes, the lance Gae Bolg may never miss the heart. But that line doesn't have anything to do with the Thrown version of Gae Bolg, the Noble Phantasm, as seen above. It's just there to remind you it's good at aiming.

    Quote Originally Posted by cm3
    The largest and most powerful attack that can be delivered with Gáe Bolg. The "attack that unleashes countless darts at the enemy" spoken of in legends is the Soaring Spear of Striking Death. After a running start, Cú Chulainn takes to the air and activates the spear by hurling it towards the ground with all his might.
    Different from the Barbed Spear of Piercing Death, this attack does not carry the property or concept of "always piercing the opponent’s heart," but instead has increased power and area of effect (intensive energy consumption). Regardless of the enemy's robust defenses or agile bodies, this technique that attacks all enemies within the target area in a carpet bombing fashion can send the enemy horde flying. In legend, the demonic spear is said to have split into thirty and hailed down on the enemy, but it seems the number increased after Cú Chulainn became a Heroic Spirit. During the battle with Emiya, Emiya spoke of the Soaring Spear of Striking Death having "exceeded the original, Gungnir – Declaration of the Great God."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  7. #124787
    うむ Hakuno's Avatar
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    Yes but I was referring about how that part in HF could also apply where they sometimes talk about both versions in the same scene (about being able to block heartstab or not)
    As you pointed out, yes in the status screen it reads clearly about how it works.
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  8. #124788
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuno View Post
    Yes but I was referring about how that part in HF could also apply where they sometimes talk about both versions in the same scene (about being able to block heartstab or not)
    As you pointed out, yes in the status screen it reads clearly about how it works.
    Like Lancer, Saber has protection against projectile weapons.
    Lancer reads the course of the projectile attack using the sound of cutting air and the enemy's murderous intent.
    Saber uses the sound of cutting air and her own instincts.
    "Imperceivable attacks" are not much of a threat against heroic spirits.
    It is those attacks that cannot be blocked, even when detected and understood, that are the fatal ones.

    In that regard, Lancer's lance is appropriate to be called a Noble Phantasm.
    A weapon that always strikes the heart cannot be blocked merely by knowing about it.
    If one is to oppose that demonic lance, one must…
    Prepare a shield overwhelming the magical energy of the lance,

    have great enough luck to change the fate determined by the lance,
    or prevent him from using the lance in the first place.


    Compared to that, Assassin's daggers are easy to manage.
    They can be fatal if they strike any vital points, but they are no different from throwing stones.
    If that passage was referring to thrown as well, that would be implying you can block gae bolg thrown with good luck because gae bolg thrown changes your destiny which it does not. So it cannot be read in such a way because it is only referring thrust in that line.
    Last edited by You; January 22nd, 2020 at 02:44 AM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  9. #124789
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroOfTheAges View Post
    All of them should be able to take down Herc, if circumstances go there way. Gawain is said to be greater than King Arthur and i numeral is active and at full power, Excalibur Galatine should be greater than A+++.
    Is Galatine even affected by Numerals? I know that EXTRA material says that it is similar to Gawain and shows its full power at noon but it might be talking about the source material not the sword per se. Or it is possible that Galatine is normally A-ranked and the plus is only activated during the power hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeroOfTheAges View Post
    For Rama, an alternate route has to be used, that is utilizing the weapons from Vishnu Bhuja and increasing his divinity to A+++ as then the rank of the NP should rise to match his divinity.
    Wait, Rama can increase his Divinity at will?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeroOfTheAges View Post
    Arjuna is more iffy than the above 2, but Pashupata gives Moksha which could completely bypass God Hand and insta kill him.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that until we're given more information about what exactly this entails.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    We weren't talking about heroic spirits. We were talking about servants. I mean, you put ishtar in there, didn't you?
    Yeah I probably shouldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    You also don't need A++ firepower to kill Herc. You just need to take out enough lives in different ways. Take for example, Excalibur can hypothetically shave off 10 lives? Artoria can try to make up for the remaining two by killing Herc in different ways. The NP doesn't have to do all the work.
    That depends on how "getting immunities to attacks which already pierced it" work. If it is getting "accustomed to a weapon" when it's 1 life at best. It mentioned that God Hand has a good synergy with Battle Continuation so it is certainly possible to pierce the God's Hand without actually killing him. That way he gets immunity without losing a life. I am not sure how many weapons Rama has though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    For those you listed: Arjuna's Pahupata has the same attack power as Karna's (mana buffed) A++ Vasavi Shatki in Extella Link
    How exactly would that work though?
    If it just conceptual ability to judge people it shouldn't really have firepower on its own.

    Xuanzang? She's the only one that 100% would take all of Herc's lives in a single hit. Her Final Buddha palm beat Ozy's Amon-Ra. The gates of Camelot was so durable that Lancelot said even the strongest holy sword (Excalibur) couldn't dent it. Sanzou busted it wide open, but she died to do so later. Buddha stuff is OP yo.
    If she dies after using it I wouldn't really call that a victory. It's more like a draw.

  10. #124790
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm View Post
    That's not how I read it. Nasu said UBW holding Saber back was questionable, not that it couldn't, which follows the theme of their entire fight where it depends more on their masters than themselves (though frankly, I consider Artoria as stronger than EMIYA). Can you link your source? I simply ask because I don't recall EMIYA's weapon being shattered to be part of Nasu's statements.
    The weapon breaking isn't part of the quote, but she's done it more than once.
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  11. #124791
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    LB5 Servants as characters
    Jason <- good execution
    Corday <- forced execution
    Orion <- could be better but pretty good execution
    Mandricardo <- good execution

    LB5 Servants that retread old character ground without adding anything new
    Achilles

    LB5 Servants as plot devices or set pieces
    Everyone else?
    and yet people were complaining about lack of character focus in LB3 because of so many servants.

    this format seems superior to me. we have interludes and events for a reason.

    Singularities and Lostbelts are the big event team up comics.

    Interludes are single character exclusive comics

    events are smaller event comics

    to borrow a Marvel and DC explanation
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  12. #124792
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Didn't LB5 drop two heroes in at the start, just to kill them literally ten sentences later?
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  13. #124793
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post

    You wanking one Cu statement to high heaven doesn't make Cu better than Achilles or Karna since the latter have better feats and skills that give them the advantage which you conveniently ignore for no reason. Again, you not reading my arguments doesn't mean I haven't made any.

    reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  14. #124794
    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Didn't LB5 drop two heroes in at the start, just to kill them literally ten sentences later?

    Their French blood was the catalyst to summon Charlotte.


    まかせておきなさい、魔王様!

  15. #124795
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    It is sad that I can't tell if you're serious or not.

  16. #124796
    吸血鬼 Vampire Ordep's Avatar
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    Lancer Gareth vs Astolfo Saber.

  17. #124797
    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu
    Comparable =/= equal

    And Archer's Rho is a degraded version

  18. #124798
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaris View Post
    Comparable =/= equal

    And Archer's Rho is a degraded version
    and Cu has Kirei as his mana source
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  19. #124799
    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Ignoring Siegfried's own skill and the fact that both Karna and Achilles can tango with him is hardly making an honest, unrefuted argument. I mean being delusional and pretending like you've not been corrected isn't a great way to discuss anything.
    Except I never ignored it. It's simply not good enough to justify your opinion, and you've corrected nothing. Surpassing humanity and being on the realm of gods and demons is frankly, not good enough to suggest a servant is equal to someone with Cu's statements in skill, let alone your opinion, which has Karna and Achilles being above Cu in skill. Ultimately, this discussion has been about me talking providing a strong, repeated accolade for Cu that puts him on the top 3 Lancers in spear usage. Your counter is "oh, Achilles and Karna are really skilled" with a generic statement. The result is you larp your feelings as facts. Then you have the gall to call me, who rejects your headcannon and sticks with the comparisons between Lancers presented to us, delusional. The irony.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    The weapon breaking isn't part of the quote, but she's done it more than once.
    Thanks for the clarification. I've seen that parts of the quotes are cut out. I wanted to make sure that wasn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu
    Well, there's 2 things to consider with this.

    1. The obvious rank down. The durability is probably equal to the original, but the conceptual repelling of projectiles would not.

    2. EMIYA waited until Gae Bolg effortlessly blasted through the layers until the final one, which he boosted with all his magical energy. So the projection wasn't even full-power.

    So Gae Bolg failed to overcome a degraded Rho Aius that wasn't even used to its full potential. Gae Bolg would fail against Achilles Cosmos. Cu's best bet against Achilles is catching him within range of Gae Bolg before the shield's deployed, and to be fair, it can happen, but compatibility wise, Achilles would likely win more.

  20. #124800
    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    and Cu has Kirei as his mana source
    That's not even a good argument considering Kirei isn't as bad as Shirou, has a bunch of baby batteries in his basement and Cu is a mana-efficient Servant

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