Badass Versus Thread

[Reign]

The stakes are just normal wooden stakes. I can't see Achilles having any trouble breaking through a wall of them.

[Remy]

How would Achilles do this without spamming his shield, (which would be inefficient) when his average damage output is notably below Karna? The stakes aren't toilet paper. They can defend against things that hit a lot harder than Achilles (Atalanta's arrows).

You may see when he run through golems, which are much sturdier than stakes.

P.S. Damage output of Achilles is much greater than Karna's(B+ vs A) or Atalanta's regular(B+ vs D) and may also rise because of his speed(F=ma, you know).

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[Reign]

Kotarou vs Okita. The battlefield is an Edo period town.

[Ronove]

How would Achilles do this without spamming his shield, (which would be inefficient) when his average damage output is notably below Karna? The stakes aren't toilet paper. They can defend against things that hit a lot harder than Achilles (Atalanta's arrows).

Says who? Achilles spear can penetrate Semiramis' barriers and blowback Atalanta Alter's noble phantasm so bolded is definitely incorrect.

[LJ3]

What other spam related abilities that are strong have we seen besides Gate of Babylon and this version of Kazikili Bey?

[Menwearpink]

I feel Bey is less spam and more his only way of fighting lol.

[Zork Knight]

What other spam related abilities that are strong have we seen besides Gate of Babylon and this version of Kazikili Bey?

Nobu's? Against the elderly that is.

[SpoonyViking]

Kotarou vs Okita. The battlefield is an Edo period town.

Assuming you're talking about an open-field duel, how strong is Kotarou's demon form? 'Cause Okita is supposed to be a "weak" Servant in the lore, if I'm not mistaken.

[Reign]

His reasoning is equipped with Mad Enhancement. All of his status is improved to the extreme, and his stamina is recovered every turn continuously.

"To the extreme" is pretty vague so there's not really a good way to judge his stats in demon mode. Sounds strong though, and the stamina recovery would suck for Okita in a drawn out fight.

Outside Ogre Trance though his stats are rather comparative to Okita's. MGI and LCK are his only stats significantly higher than her which I can't see coming too into play.

STR: C+CON: D
AGI: A+
MGI: B
LCK: B
NP: C

Strenght: C
Endurance: E
Agility: A+
Magic: E
Luck: D
Noble Phantasm: C

Okita's haori NP might potentially even the playing field if Kotarou uses demon form but I don't think we know how much it ranks her up either.

[AAM1232]

SNIP

I don't think making up impossible scenarios that rely on a lack of knowledge of a character is helping your point. As is making up assumptions that aren't well founded.

Either way, it's not a great scenario for Black/Vlad when you need an irreversible NP that Vlad hates to stand a chance.

[LJ3]

I remember this rather strange example of Badass Vs argument where a former member posited that Apoc Vlad could manipulate Kazikli Bey enough to form a shield that could withstand Gae Bolg, presumably either version.

Which I found rather dubious. I find it more likely in this matchup, Vlad can't just spam stakes indiscriminately; he'd have to set up a situation to outplay Akhilles to maneuver his stakes to target the heel. And then you'd have to take in account Akhilles's own judgment in adapting to that strategy.

But like all Vs, this doesn't matter. You can definitely craft a story where Vlad fights Akhillles, and make that his lynchpin to even the odds, since Akhilles has the advantage in firepower and defense.

[Zork Knight]

So now that his Mats are out (even if they're not that informative), Xiang Yu v. Lu Bu? Who is the superior Chinese Super War Robot?

[AAM1232]

Probably Xiang Yu. Future Prediction, a balanced statline for dueling and having decent fighting capabilities, while Lu Bu is tankier and seems to have a better NP, but suffers from not having his skill fully displayed due to being a Berserker, which also affects his NP to a degree.

Though I feel you'd probably need a bit more to have a better comparison, like how they fare vs comparable opponents.

[Rafflesiac]

tfw CALCS defeat superior musou memes

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Also Xiang Yu having two skills and an NP dedicated to making him an almighty war kaiju but mostly the CALCS.

[Zork Knight]

Probably Xiang Yu. Future Prediction, a balanced statline for dueling and having decent fighting capabilities, while Lu Bu is tankier and seems to have a better NP, but suffers from not having his skill fully displayed due to being a Berserker, which also affects his NP to a degree.

Though I feel you'd probably need a bit more to have a better comparison, like how they fare vs comparable opponents.

Lu Bu also has higher physical potential overall (A+/A+/B+ vs. A/A/A), not just tankier.

But I suppose it comes down to what's better, having no skills or having no Noble Phantasm.

[AAM1232]

I mean XY has a NP, so it's really between no skills and weaker(?) NP.

[fire_mountain_30]

Come on, this is getting ridiculous now. If you have a point that isn't deliberate nitpicking and denial of basic facts do share it. Otherwise feel free to not bother posting at all, since you're just wasting time in making arguments that have no meaning.

As for Achilles vs Spartacus, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to? He could punch through Chiron, so there is some merit to the idea.

In order for the stakes to sprout inside him (assuming that it would matter given Amarantos), Vlad needs to hit Achilles with his spear. This would be very difficult for Vlad.

"He could punch through Chiron, so there is some merit to the idea." with the power of plot and background OST on his side. i didnt mean his fist. i meant him literally tearing him aapart as he ran into Spartacus.

"Vlad needs to hit Achilles with his spear. This would be very difficult for Vlad." more difficult than hitting a god tier demigod warrior constantly surrounded by flames that can block Balmung?

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my bet is that achilles would break through stakes unless vlad concentrates basically all of them in one structure
that shouldn't mean the stakes can't hit him when they appear from the ground while he's running

that wasnt needed for the other red invulnerable demigod warrior that is stated to be "only one step" behind achilles in speed

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The stakes are just normal wooden stakes. I can't see Achilles having any trouble breaking through a wall of them.

normal stakes that can pierce spartacus that is compared to a giant iron ball in density when he is first introduced.

Astolfo's sword is also just a normal sword but it is outright stated in one of the times that Sieg uses it (i think it was against Mordred) that is is way sharper than you would imagine and that you couldnt reproduce it with modern smelting techniques

"normal" weapons that come from beings from the throne =/= normal IRL weapons

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Says who? Achilles spear can penetrate Semiramis' barriers and blowback Atalanta Alter's noble phantasm so bolded is definitely incorrect.

couldnt pierce the back of Semi's hand

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"In this case, in addition to the necessary conditions of “being where he is making a contract, instead of being in opposition, of his own volition” and the Noble Phantasm “not requiring considerable skill and power to invoke its true name”, it is believed that the transfer of the Noble Phantasm went smoothly because there is “an episode in the legend of the giver (Achilles) where he loans his Noble Phantasms” and “an episode in the legend of the receiver (Astolfo) where he borrows a Noble Phantasm”."

didnt this sprout some conversation back in the day when this came out? i thinkit was even YOU that was making the argument "this is why you wouldnt expect Shirou to be able to use causality Gae Bolg if Cu just gave the spear to him", because NPs have technique requirements (swallow reversal, gae bolg) and power requirements (Orion's first NP, Excalibur couldnt be used when Saber didnt have a working thumb). there is definetely both a skill and physical power requirement needed to handle a variety of NPs

[eddyak]

Hold up.

We're really debating this?

Xiang Yu has four swords. Four curved swords. That's like several levels of instant win.

[AAM1232]

SNIP

Reviving dead VS huh. Oh well let's see what we got.

With the power of plot is hardly an argument. As for the tangent, I gave my thoughts already. Dunno why you think it doesn't count for some reason.

Yes? Is this supposed to be some gotcha?

Karna isn't Achilles, so I don't know why you'd use that as a way to gauge Vlad vs Achilles.

This isn't an argument for the stakes not breaking.

Don't understand why you need to go off into a little tangent there.

[fire_mountain_30]

ok, curious about this one

Beast Kama VS Nyah BB