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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #126881
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    I mean it’s always been Pokémon. Hell in the UBW route the level 100 god type was beaten by a level 30 faker type
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

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    リビングデッド Living Dead Kubera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    No, unless you think all Grands are the same level when they clearly aren't.

    Surtr's sword was also getting slowed down by Sitonai, Skadi and Herc, and Mahapralaya is far more impressive than any implied feats for Laevateinn.
    Grands aren't on the same level but I always thought they should start from a baseline level above regular servants anyway, since their thing is being summoned on a much stronger container. Quirinus is kind of an outlier and Solomon and KH are haxxed, but since they all were supposedly big stuff as regular servants already, I can't imagine them being too far apart as general power before accounting for their specific quirks.
    Especially since being comparable to a Grand is considered proper wanking for a Lostbelt King in game.


    Herc with buffs from casters could also tank one hit from Artemis' NP though, which if I remember correctly was on par with Wodime's magecraft and Zeus' thunder. Being buffed by Skadi, Sitonai, Sigurd and Bryn should be at least as worth as being buffed by unanmed casters, and since he's a servant, Surtr's anti-life buffs weren't even applied in that scene. Skadi's snow was also countering the sword's heat, so I don't really see it as a poor showing for Surtr.

    Mahapralaya is definitely better, but it needs a charge time to reach that level of power. Arjuna could use a less charged version to attack instantly but we have no idea how much of a nerf that would be, and Laevateinn scaling from Rhongo & Artemis is enough to at least make the fight close imho.

  3. #126883
    死徒 Dead Apostle
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Says nothing about its power. And I'm not super impressed by implied threats to blast Scandinavia or comparisons to Rhongo vs Mahapralaya.
    But it does speak a lot about its effectiveness in combat. Even if full power Mahapralaya is stronger, the charge-up required makes it nigh unusable in a straight fight against anyone that can penetrate Arjuna's defense.

    "Implied threat" is a weird thing to say considering it already happened in the past, and that small space is all that's left of that worldline.

  4. #126884
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Surtr's sword was also getting slowed down by Sitonai, Skadi and Herc, and Mahapralaya is far more impressive than any implied feats for Laevateinn.
    Mahapralaya was slowed down by K&K alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    No clue why you'd want to scale from Orion though. It's not like his feats were particularly great.
    Orion shot down a gigantic orbital magic space mech god that was able to kill islands with a single shot. Not on the level of Rome Sends Her Regards taking out galaxy-killing supermech Zeus, but I'd put that on par with, if not higher than, playing one of a dozen roles in taking down dragonmum.
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  5. #126885
    whydunit Reign's Avatar
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    KH will always stand out more because he was the first time we saw a Grand in action and his scene was super cool, but Orion shooting down an orbital space god cannon is definitely more impressive firepower-wise.

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    But it does speak a lot about its effectiveness in combat. Even if full power Mahapralaya is stronger, the charge-up required makes it nigh unusable in a straight fight against anyone that can penetrate Arjuna's defense.

    "Implied threat" is a weird thing to say considering it already happened in the past, and that small space is all that's left of that worldline.
    I mean this is still a guy in a vimana vs a giant on the ground, so I'm not seeing how Surtr gets much done, especially when he wasn't doing much in LB2 already, being beaten by the likes of Sigurd, Bryn, Napo and co.

    He didn't do it in one go unlike Arjuna Alter, so it's all implications and hype.

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    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Do you ever see Surtr's legs in-game? IIRC no, which means he's as tall as he needs to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kubera View Post
    Grands aren't on the same level but I always thought they should start from a baseline level above regular servants anyway, since their thing is being summoned on a much stronger container. Quirinus is kind of an outlier and Solomon and KH are haxxed, but since they all were supposedly big stuff as regular servants already, I can't imagine them being too far apart as general power before accounting for their specific quirks.
    Especially since being comparable to a Grand is considered proper wanking for a Lostbelt King in game.


    Herc with buffs from casters could also tank one hit from Artemis' NP though, which if I remember correctly was on par with Wodime's magecraft and Zeus' thunder. Being buffed by Skadi, Sitonai, Sigurd and Bryn should be at least as worth as being buffed by unanmed casters, and since he's a servant, Surtr's anti-life buffs weren't even applied in that scene. Skadi's snow was also countering the sword's heat, so I don't really see it as a poor showing for Surtr.

    Mahapralaya is definitely better, but it needs a charge time to reach that level of power. Arjuna could use a less charged version to attack instantly but we have no idea how much of a nerf that would be, and Laevateinn scaling from Rhongo & Artemis is enough to at least make the fight close imho.
    I mean Orion can shoot down Artemis, and Quirinus matters a lot vs Zeus. I don't think what KH does is that impressive in terms of power compared to them.

    Don't know why Artemis is being brought up here. And I'm wary of using that kind of scaling for Surtr's sword, when Mahapralaya only got slowed down in the end by K&K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Do you ever see Surtr's legs in-game? IIRC no, which means he's as tall as he needs to be.
    Mats say he's 7m~1km+ tall.

  9. #126889
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Mahapralaya was slowed down by K&K alone.


    Orion shot down a gigantic orbital magic space mech god that was able to kill islands with a single shot. Not on the level of Rome Sends Her Regards taking out galaxy-killing supermech Zeus, but I'd put that on par with, if not higher than, playing one of a dozen roles in taking down dragonmum.
    Orion got various backup in the form of Achilles, Paris, and Hephaestus.

    It's as much his power as Super Karna is Karna on the regular.


    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    I mean this is still a guy in a vimana vs a giant on the ground, so I'm not seeing how Surtr gets much done
    Why would riding on a Vimana save him from a nuke?

    especially when he wasn't doing much in LB2 already, being beaten by the likes of Sigurd, Bryn, Napo and co.
    Sure, if you decide to ignore context.
    A combination of Herc, a Lostbelt King, Valkyrie, Sitonia, Bryn, and Sigurd were needed to hold off Laevateinn for a short period. It was said that even if Mashu jumped in with Mord Camelot, it wouldn't change anything, and her power was enough to block Ivan's lightning. The only reason they don't die is because Napoleon destroys his saint graph to perform a miracle, because that's what he does.

    Afterwards, Ophelia cuts off Surtr's contract, depriving him of mana. Then she boosts Sigurd with Sirius Light. In addition to that, Surtr gained Fafnir attributes, giving him the worst kind of compatibility with Gram. In the end, Sigurd and Bryn still die despite the additional buff from Skadi on top of it all.



    He didn't do it in one go unlike Arjuna Alter.
    Where's this stated?
    Last edited by Ronove; July 2nd, 2021 at 08:18 PM.

  10. #126890
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    You're asking me why a mobile flying ship might be useful in evading an explosion/slash? Really?

    Context doesn't do much to suggest Surtr has much of a chance, since it's basically rocket tag and Junao's the harder target to hit since he's smaller and flying.

    His profile and the story? Where he doesn't instantly burn the planet and it's something he needs time to do?

  11. #126891
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    You're asking me why a mobile flying ship might be useful in evading an explosion/slash? Really?

    Context doesn't do much to suggest Surtr has much of a chance, since it's basically rocket tag and Junao's the harder target to hit since he's smaller and flying.

    His profile and the story? Where he doesn't instantly burn the planet and it's something he needs time to do?
    That presumes Vimana is fast enough. Arjuna never actually uses it for combat.
    In fact, his go-to strategy to pop Mahapralaya, which requires his full concentration to use, while he ignores incoming attacks.

    Neither Surtr's profile nor the story ever says he needs time. The story mentions repeatedly that he only requires a single blow.
    But if you've got the sources, by all means, post them.

  12. #126892
    リビングデッド Living Dead Kubera's Avatar
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    If a flying ship is all you need to counter Surtr then I feel sorry for the norse pantheon lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Don't know why Artemis is being brought up here.
    I didn't bring her up as proof that Surtr > Arjuna but to show that Herc blocking Surtr's sword doesn't really matter too much in the grand scale of things, since the same happened to an NP on par with Kirschtaria's magecraft. Which is also consistent with Rhongomyniad surpassing that power and Surtr being comparable to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    Orion got various backup in the form of Achilles, Paris, and Hephaestus.
    Didn't his regular arrows destroy pieces from Artemis even before his final shot? Altough it was with the bow made from Achilles' armor, I bet it was much closer to his regular power than the super-powered NP using Paris & Apollo as an arrow.
    Last edited by Kubera; July 3rd, 2021 at 12:28 PM.

  13. #126893
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    That presumes Vimana is fast enough. Arjuna never actually uses it for combat.
    In fact, his go-to strategy to pop Mahapralaya, which requires his full concentration to use, while he ignores incoming attacks.

    Neither Surtr's profile nor the story ever says he needs time. The story mentions repeatedly that he only requires a single blow.
    But if you've got the sources, by all means, post them.
    A single blow for Scandinavia =/= a single blow for the planet, especially when we never end up seeing him pull it off and only get stuff like how Odin and co sealed him away after an epic battle that ruined everything.

  14. #126894
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    A single blow for Scandinavia =/= a single blow for the planet, especially when we never end up seeing him pull it off and only get stuff like how Odin and co sealed him away after an epic battle that ruined everything.
    Surtr was capable of wiping out Scandinavia before Fenrir. Skadi says this plainly.
    He is 'only' capable of that much in the LB because...it's an LB. The texture is isolated by the storm walls. But with Paper Moon, it's speculated that he might be able to go beyond and reach "the outside". This doesn't just apply to Surtr either. Arjuna himself is only affecting India.

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