Badass Versus Thread

[AAM1232]

When the VN says you can shield block GB, it doesnt mention if its heart stab or thrown, right? We just assume heartstab cuz of the lack of 50 meter run up.Which leads to the question of can you ThrownBolg from a standstill.

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20295/

In that regard, Lancer's lance is appropriate to be called a Noble Phantasm.
A weapon that always strikes the heart cannot be blocked merely by knowing about it.
If one is to oppose that demonic lance, one must…
Prepare a shield overwhelming the magical energy of the lance,
have great enough luck to change the fate determined by the lance,
or prevent him from using the lance in the first place.

It's the heartstab. Nuke doesn't go for the heart.

[SpoonyViking]

Welp, that answers my question.

[naschyamamoto]

Not too sure if this is the right place to ask, but anyone have an idea of exactly how much of Ishtar and Caster Nero's skillsets are glossed over by FGO?

Because 1, despite all the 'useless goddess' jokes Ishtar still does stuff like creating minor Singularities, shapeshifting and charming other Servants, and converting Venus into a weapon of mass destruction. And 2, Nero's bio in-game mentions things like converting her voice into sonic cannons or something like that? Not to mention the abstract mentions to magecraft teachings.

[Hakuno]

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20295/



It's the heartstab. Nuke doesn't go for the heart.

Well they also said the whole heartstab thing when the throw version was about to be used so ???

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20208/
…This Noble Phantasm is a throwing attack by nature.
A lance that never misses the heart.
A cursed Noble Phantasm that cannot be avoided and will attack the enemy even if it misses.
That is Gae Bolg, lance of destruction possessed by the hero that never lost in his lifetime.
As it is hurled using all of Lancer's magical energy, it can be neither dodged nor blocked.

[AAM1232]

The context about Luck makes it pretty clear, since that's the only one where Luck is specifically needed.

[You]

Well they also said the whole heartstab thing when the throw version was about to be used so ???

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20208/
…This Noble Phantasm is a throwing attack by nature.
A lance that never misses the heart.
A cursed Noble Phantasm that cannot be avoided and will attack the enemy even if it misses.
That is Gae Bolg, lance of destruction possessed by the hero that never lost in his lifetime.
As it is hurled using all of Lancer's magical energy, it can be neither dodged nor blocked.

With the additional information you're able to parse that passage more clearly.



The damage and form both come close to that of "Brionac, the Roaring Five Stars" possessed by Lugh, the Celtic God of Light, but its ability of "striking an opponent no matter how many times it is dodged" makes it closer to the chief god of Northern Europe, Odin's "Gungnir, Declaration of Great God".


Yes, the lance Gae Bolg may never miss the heart. But that line doesn't have anything to do with the Thrown version of Gae Bolg, the Noble Phantasm, as seen above. It's just there to remind you it's good at aiming.

The largest and most powerful attack that can be delivered with Gáe Bolg. The "attack that unleashes countless darts at the enemy" spoken of in legends is the Soaring Spear of Striking Death. After a running start, Cú Chulainn takes to the air and activates the spear by hurling it towards the ground with all his might.
Different from the Barbed Spear of Piercing Death, this attack does not carry the property or concept of "always piercing the opponent’s heart," but instead has increased power and area of effect (intensive energy consumption). Regardless of the enemy's robust defenses or agile bodies, this technique that attacks all enemies within the target area in a carpet bombing fashion can send the enemy horde flying. In legend, the demonic spear is said to have split into thirty and hailed down on the enemy, but it seems the number increased after Cú Chulainn became a Heroic Spirit. During the battle with Emiya, Emiya spoke of the Soaring Spear of Striking Death having "exceeded the original, Gungnir – Declaration of the Great God."

[Hakuno]

Yes but I was referring about how that part in HF could also apply where they sometimes talk about both versions in the same scene (about being able to block heartstab or not)
As you pointed out, yes in the status screen it reads clearly about how it works.

[You]

Yes but I was referring about how that part in HF could also apply where they sometimes talk about both versions in the same scene (about being able to block heartstab or not)
As you pointed out, yes in the status screen it reads clearly about how it works.

Like Lancer, Saber has protection against projectile weapons.
Lancer reads the course of the projectile attack using the sound of cutting air and the enemy's murderous intent.
Saber uses the sound of cutting air and her own instincts.
"Imperceivable attacks" are not much of a threat against heroic spirits.
It is those attacks that cannot be blocked, even when detected and understood, that are the fatal ones.

In that regard, Lancer's lance is appropriate to be called a Noble Phantasm.
A weapon that always strikes the heart cannot be blocked merely by knowing about it.
If one is to oppose that demonic lance, one must…
Prepare a shield overwhelming the magical energy of the lance,
have great enough luck to change the fate determined by the lance,
or prevent him from using the lance in the first place.

Compared to that, Assassin's daggers are easy to manage.
They can be fatal if they strike any vital points, but they are no different from throwing stones.

If that passage was referring to thrown as well, that would be implying you can block gae bolg thrown with good luck because gae bolg thrown changes your destiny which it does not. So it cannot be read in such a way because it is only referring thrust in that line.

[Blastedspider]

All of them should be able to take down Herc, if circumstances go there way. Gawain is said to be greater than King Arthur and i numeral is active and at full power, Excalibur Galatine should be greater than A+++.

Is Galatine even affected by Numerals? I know that EXTRA material says that it is similar to Gawain and shows its full power at noon but it might be talking about the source material not the sword per se. Or it is possible that Galatine is normally A-ranked and the plus is only activated during the power hours.

For Rama, an alternate route has to be used, that is utilizing the weapons from Vishnu Bhuja and increasing his divinity to A+++ as then the rank of the NP should rise to match his divinity.

Wait, Rama can increase his Divinity at will?

Arjuna is more iffy than the above 2, but Pashupata gives Moksha which could completely bypass God Hand and insta kill him.

I wouldn't be so sure about that until we're given more information about what exactly this entails.

- - - Updated - - -

We weren't talking about heroic spirits. We were talking about servants. I mean, you put ishtar in there, didn't you?

Yeah I probably shouldn't.

You also don't need A++ firepower to kill Herc. You just need to take out enough lives in different ways. Take for example, Excalibur can hypothetically shave off 10 lives? Artoria can try to make up for the remaining two by killing Herc in different ways. The NP doesn't have to do all the work.

That depends on how "getting immunities to attacks which already pierced it" work. If it is getting "accustomed to a weapon" when it's 1 life at best. It mentioned that God Hand has a good synergy with Battle Continuation so it is certainly possible to pierce the God's Hand without actually killing him. That way he gets immunity without losing a life. I am not sure how many weapons Rama has though.

For those you listed: Arjuna's Pahupata has the same attack power as Karna's (mana buffed) A++ Vasavi Shatki in Extella Link

How exactly would that work though?
If it just conceptual ability to judge people it shouldn't really have firepower on its own.

Xuanzang? She's the only one that 100% would take all of Herc's lives in a single hit. Her Final Buddha palm beat Ozy's Amon-Ra. The gates of Camelot was so durable that Lancelot said even the strongest holy sword (Excalibur) couldn't dent it. Sanzou busted it wide open, but she died to do so later. Buddha stuff is OP yo.

If she dies after using it I wouldn't really call that a victory. It's more like a draw.

[eddyak]

That's not how I read it. Nasu said UBW holding Saber back was questionable, not that it couldn't, which follows the theme of their entire fight where it depends more on their masters than themselves (though frankly, I consider Artoria as stronger than EMIYA). Can you link your source? I simply ask because I don't recall EMIYA's weapon being shattered to be part of Nasu's statements.

The weapon breaking isn't part of the quote, but she's done it more than once.

[fire_mountain_30]

LB5 Servants as characters
Jason <- good execution
Corday <- forced execution
Orion <- could be better but pretty good execution
Mandricardo <- good execution

LB5 Servants that retread old character ground without adding anything new
Achilles

LB5 Servants as plot devices or set pieces
Everyone else?

and yet people were complaining about lack of character focus in LB3 because of so many servants.

this format seems superior to me. we have interludes and events for a reason.

Singularities and Lostbelts are the big event team up comics.

Interludes are single character exclusive comics

events are smaller event comics

to borrow a Marvel and DC explanation

[eddyak]

Didn't LB5 drop two heroes in at the start, just to kill them literally ten sentences later?

[fire_mountain_30]

You wanking one Cu statement to high heaven doesn't make Cu better than Achilles or Karna since the latter have better feats and skills that give them the advantage which you conveniently ignore for no reason. Again, you not reading my arguments doesn't mean I haven't made any.

reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu

[Lily Emilio]

Didn't LB5 drop two heroes in at the start, just to kill them literally ten sentences later?

Their French blood was the catalyst to summon Charlotte.

[Blastedspider]

It is sad that I can't tell if you're serious or not.

[Ordep]

Lancer Gareth vs Astolfo Saber.

[Altaris]

reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu

Comparable =/= equal

And Archer's Rho is a degraded version

[fire_mountain_30]

Comparable =/= equal

And Archer's Rho is a degraded version

and Cu has Kirei as his mana source

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

Ignoring Siegfried's own skill and the fact that both Karna and Achilles can tango with him is hardly making an honest, unrefuted argument. I mean being delusional and pretending like you've not been corrected isn't a great way to discuss anything.

Except I never ignored it. It's simply not good enough to justify your opinion, and you've corrected nothing. Surpassing humanity and being on the realm of gods and demons is frankly, not good enough to suggest a servant is equal to someone with Cu's statements in skill, let alone your opinion, which has Karna and Achilles being above Cu in skill. Ultimately, this discussion has been about me talking providing a strong, repeated accolade for Cu that puts him on the top 3 Lancers in spear usage. Your counter is "oh, Achilles and Karna are really skilled" with a generic statement. The result is you larp your feelings as facts. Then you have the gall to call me, who rejects your headcannon and sticks with the comparisons between Lancers presented to us, delusional. The irony.

The weapon breaking isn't part of the quote, but she's done it more than once.

Thanks for the clarification. I've seen that parts of the quotes are cut out. I wanted to make sure that wasn't it.

reminder that the Cosmos Shield is described in the Apo Mats as "comparable to Rho Aias" and we know how it performed against Cu

Well, there's 2 things to consider with this.

1. The obvious rank down. The durability is probably equal to the original, but the conceptual repelling of projectiles would not.

2. EMIYA waited until Gae Bolg effortlessly blasted through the layers until the final one, which he boosted with all his magical energy. So the projection wasn't even full-power.

So Gae Bolg failed to overcome a degraded Rho Aius that wasn't even used to its full potential. Gae Bolg would fail against Achilles Cosmos. Cu's best bet against Achilles is catching him within range of Gae Bolg before the shield's deployed, and to be fair, it can happen, but compatibility wise, Achilles would likely win more.

[Altaris]

and Cu has Kirei as his mana source

That's not even a good argument considering Kirei isn't as bad as Shirou, has a bunch of baby batteries in his basement and Cu is a mana-efficient Servant