Tristan didn't do half bad against Bageko. Artoria's knights aren't exactly pushovers, but Meluko does seems to be somewhat in a league of her own when it comes to most Servants.
Tristan didn't do half bad against Bageko. Artoria's knights aren't exactly pushovers, but Meluko does seems to be somewhat in a league of her own when it comes to most Servants.
Yeah Tristan wasn't immediately murdered by Barghest and it actually took a bit and ultimately a TNR Noble Phantasm to ultimately do him in.
Melusine is an absolute monster but people shouldn't underestimate Artoria nor Excalibur for that matter. She's basically seen as the absolute best Saber and in other media, is seen as the monster she was always stated and Excalibur is Excalibur.
Team Artoria, Gilgamesh, Karna vs Crimson Moon Brunestud. The servants have infinite mana.
Charlie vs. Maou Nobu
Crimson Moon is likely too much for them. It can only be argued if Artoria releases Excalibur's seals.Originally Posted by Clown
I'm not up to date with Gudaguda so I can't say, but since Charlemagne would probably think that fighting back against someone who has an advantage against him would be cool, can she do anything against 13 Durandals?
Karna has a godkiller and a passive -90% damage buff, Gil has Ea and likely a bunch of immortal killers, and he definitely isn't going to job against a thing on the level of CM.
If anybody can kill it, they're the three most likely to be able to.
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Actually, I think you are heavily discounting them to be frank. While yes TYPEs are absolute monsters, we should remember that Zelretch did ultimately defeat TYPE-Moon/Crimson Moon Brunestud at the height of his power(Even if it crippled him in the process completely), I don't see how how Karna(Who is capable of destroying an entire Texture with Vasavi Shakti and kill a weaker Sefar as well), Gilgamesh(Who was the main reason we even killed Tiamat in Babylonia as even with all of her weaknesses being locked in, she was too durable for anyone to even do damage otherwise outside of King Hassan and he had to sacrifice all of his Grand Power to do so) and Artoria(whose Excalibur was capable of destroying Sefar at the apex of her power, defeating even Machine God Ares who is a monster even according to her).
I can actually believe they can defeat Crimson Moon unless we SERIOUSLY get some major reason why they can't explicitly(Like if he has some Nega-Summon bullshit against Servants or Magecraft or he's like ORT and can kill Humans stupid easy).
I'll probably give it to Charlie. He ain't Divinity and Maou Nobu is seen as far stronger than her Archer Counterpart but she isn't no Majin Okita either so she doesn't have that much else to give her a major edge by proxy against him.
Meanwhile, Charlemagne has shown to not immediately die and even do decently against heavyweights like Artoria, Karna and Arjuna.
Last edited by Gehennahem; August 8th, 2022 at 02:03 AM.
Types are way beyond the category of servants or even Grands imo.
If you do super dumb max wank Gil who uses everything he has in the bset way possible he might be able to fight a bit but.
No, they'd lose.
Types are not beyond grands.
Considering that one beast is primate murder and he is above ORT in the original DAA...
Primate Murder is above ORT because PM is a bigger threat to the human race on account of conceptual advantages and not being a Neet, not because it's stronger than the Crystal Spider.
Can't believe Zelretch is above ORT-tan, but not above Brunestud the person he beat.
But yes. DAA rankings are about how spooky it is to humans and so on as dictated by the church, also rose prophecy tea parties I guess.
It's not a Espada power ranking really.
When did Karna destroy a texture with VS?
Extella Sefar was 3rd stage so she wasn't that much of an heavyweight.
Karna needed an insane power-up just to barely match Arjuna Alter, who is weaker than the likes of U-Olga, who again is weaker than ORT. Crimson Moon might be weaker than ORT, but we're talking about a lot of tiers here.
Gilgamesh killed an extremely nerfed Tiamat, she didn't just lose her immortality. We see earlier that Kingu's NP, who is on par with Gil's, barely pierced Tiamat's 2nd form.
Even top tier servants have been far surpassed by many of the gods or stronger FGO enemies or Beasts tbh. I don't see Types being any weaker than any of those FGO villains. Only full power Excalibur could possibly do the job since it one-shotted a foe approaching Amaterasu in terms of power level.
Most Grand Servants are shit compared to the strong Beasts tho. Even Quirinus who is an extremely special Grand Servant who's also a chief god is weaker than U-Olga, and currently she's not even top 3 Beasts.
Nothing has ever shown TYPEs > Beasts or Grands and Gilgamesh at full power has been compared to Grand Servants in the past(and Extella) and technically, so should Artoria in that case.
That's why it would be better to wait till FGO actually gets to Lostbelt 7 but it's still not best to pretend that all Ultimate Ones are created equal till otherwise stated.
1. Karna destroyed Ahkellius Kosmos which is a Shield that projects the Greek Texture with it's Shield as Hesphestaus made it as:
2. And not many Servants even killed Sefar in their Endings in the first place so it still gives Karna that much to even be able to kill Sefar even in that weakened Stage at all(The only other one was Altera and Teardrop Photon Ray was stated to be able to also destroy a Texture(World) at full power).Akhilleus Kosmos: The Miniature World Enclosed by the Azure Sky
Rank: A+
Classification: Barrier Noble Phantasm
Range: 0
Maximum Number of Targets: 1 person
Akhilleus Kosmos (Achilles’ World). A defensive Barrier Noble Phantasm that is comparable to “The Seven Rings that Cover the Fiery Heavens”. A shield constructed by Hephaestus, the God of Blacksmiths. The very world seen by Achilles is projected, and the ocean currents whirling at some parts of the outer circumference are due to the Sea God. To oppose this shield is, in other words, to take on the world, and if it is invoked, it can even defend against Anti-Fortress and Anti-Country Noble Phantasms.
3. Nothing states that U-Olga is stronger than God Arjuna, Lostbelt Zeus or Romulus Quirinus so unless you got massive proof of that, I'm not sure how that correlates to somehow Crimson Moon being stronger than her unless you go with a certain theory on what she is.
4. Huh? Tiamat was never defensively weakened, the heck are you talking about?
No one could hurt Tiamat even then till Gilgamesh appeared with Ea, I actually watched the game Babylonia quite a few times, did you do that?Self-Modification: EX
Tiamat can remake her Saint Graph by utilizing the black Sea of Life. From her usual Saint Graph status (Femme Fatale), she can grow into a draconic body that exceeds a height of 60 meters. Tiamat, who grew into a draconic body, can cancel attacks that are Rank A++ or below.
5. Uh, I'm not sure how "Servants get surpassed by extremely BS Divine Spirits and Beasts" suddenly equals they will lose to Crimson Moon Brunestud especially when in most cases, Servants are surpassed by absurdly BS Lostbelt Kings(Which even with Lostbelt Ivan, we had a Yaga that know about Servants even say there are some that RIVAL him so that makes no sense) who primarily got so powerful as they either turned themselves into a horrifically strong hodgepodge(Like Scathath Skadi, Surtr, God Arjuna and Lostbelt Zeus became) or basically became ultra strong due to sheer circumstance(Lostbelt Morgan).
So yeah, I think you are overhyping the hell out of the TYPEs and completely believing they must be on the same level as Beasts and the super strong Lostbelt Kings when there's only just hype for them.
Last edited by Gehennahem; August 8th, 2022 at 03:55 PM.
I do not think there would be much sense in Grands, Beasts (in general) and whatnot being stronger than TYPEs since the whole point is that they're the strongest beings around of each planet. I think a lot of tension and purpose behind their existence would be lost if Earth has a whole bunch of things stronger or on their level that can be freely called upon or manifested. The purpose of Beasts and Grands is not being the strongest of the planet so them being outclasses by TYPEs wouldn't take away from their designation and concept, but the inverse is not true.
Well, we also have the statement of 7 Grands = 1 PM. I think that still holds.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
ORT at the very least is better than Beast VII as it's considerered a superior host for the Alien God to take over. Sure, it's possible it may be the strongest TYPE and beyond Crimson Moon, but there's a ridicolous difference between U-Olga and even the strongest servant, she straight up no-selled Zeus level magecraft further empowered by Sirius Light. It wouldn't make any sense for TYPES to be so much below they can be matched by servants, even Gilgamesh.
Don't really have much on hand to contradict it, but I assume that may fall more in line with destroying a reality marble or something, since crushing an entire texture as it's usually intended in FGO is a ridicolous level of power (like, Surtr/Rhongo kind of bullshit).1. Karna destroyed Ahkellius Kosmos which is a Shield that projects the Greek Texture with it's Shield as Hesphestaus made it as:
Sure, Karna is one of the strongest servants, not arguing with that. But like, going by Nasu's numbers, that Sefar would be a 30,000 against the 300,000,000 she gets at full power. Still impressive, but not so much by the perspective of the higher tiers.2. And not many Servants even killed Sefar in their Endings in the first place so it still gives Karna that much to even be able to kill Sefar even in that weakened Stage at all(The only other one was Altera and Teardrop Photon Ray was stated to be able to also destroy a Texture(World) at full power).
It's at the start of chapter 5.5. They say U-Olga's saint graph is 3rd tier Celestial Scale, which back then was only second to Goetia's 2nd tier among all the foes faced by Chaldea. So at least in terms of power she should surpass everyone but him (could still lose to some due to hax). Nero Draco in Babylon was also 3rd tier and easily trashed a Grand Servant plus the Chaldea group, which iirc included Enkidu.3. Nothing states that U-Olga is stronger than God Arjuna, Lostbelt Zeus or Romulus Quirinus so unless you got massive proof of that, I'm not sure how that correlates to somehow Crimson Moon being stronger than her unless you go with a certain theory on what she is.
Her third form was technically the strongest, but she was costantly under the effect of Ereshkigal's authority, Merlin had reversed her Chaos Tide so that it would drain her power, and King Hassan straight up reduced her saint graph to that of a regular servant. It's proof enough that Gilgamesh could kill her since, again, Kingu's own Enuma Elish barely did anything back when she was in her 2nd form.4. Huh? Tiamat was never defensively weakened, the heck are you talking about?
No one could hurt Tiamat even then till Gilgamesh appeared with Ea, I actually watched the game Babylonia quite a few times, did you do that?
It's not just bullshit lostbelt-specific abominations which surpassed them, even regular gods such as Skadi or Artemis or Surtr before eating Fenrir easily outscale servants. Ivan is the weakest Lostbelt King and they still thought they needed top tier servants to face him.5. Uh, I'm not sure how "Servants get surpassed by extremely BS Divine Spirits and Beasts" suddenly equals they will lose to Crimson Moon Brunestud especially when in most cases, Servants are surpassed by absurdly BS Lostbelt Kings(Which even with Lostbelt Ivan, we had a Yaga that know about Servants even say there are some that RIVAL him so that makes no sense) who primarily got so powerful as they either turned themselves into a horrifically strong hodgepodge(Like Scathath Skadi, Surtr, God Arjuna and Lostbelt Zeus became) or basically became ultra strong due to sheer circumstance(Lostbelt Morgan).
So yeah, I think you are overhyping the hell out of the TYPEs and completely believing they must be on the same level as Beasts and the super strong Lostbelt Kings when there's only just hype for them.
And the reason why I put TYPES at that level is because it would make no sense for the absolute top of a planet to be below the level of so many random gods or weapons on Earth. Like, why would the Earth go so far to get Crimson Moon's help and focus everything on Arcueid or Altrouge if it was so full of superior beings? Gugalanna is "just" a really strong Divine Beast and it took Gilgamesh + Enkidu to beat him with Gil considering it in high esteem. Rhongomyniad is literally just one of many lynchpins created in the inner sea and it outscales by far even the highest ranked NPs registered in Chaldea at that time. You could even argue for Woodwose as being able to face EX-ranked servants by himself and he's just one of many A-Rei. If TYPEs couldn't outscale this kind of stuff it'd be dumb.
Last edited by Kubera; August 8th, 2022 at 04:53 PM.
Have we ever seen what 100% Arc can do? Since I'm given to understand she's basically equal to Crimson Moon, not counting her authority over Earth, we might be able to use her to get an idea of how powerful Crimson Moon is. Iirc primate murder also surpasses Crimson Moon, so I don't think he's quite Beast level. Considering Zelretch defeated him but was afraid of ORT in Strange Fake (who isn't even the strongest TYPE in the solar system) I always thought there's a big difference in the strength between Crimson Moon and the other TYPEs.
Does Primate Murderer > Type-Moon come from the stuff about Altrouge surpassing Crimson Moon due to having it as her pet? Because I always interpreted it as them both together beating Crimson Moon, but I guess it could also mean Fou wins alone. Not that it matters too much since we don't know how strong full power Beast IV would have been like, there are different tiers even among beasts.
About Arcueid, only thing that comes to mind is that statement about how she was the only one in EXTRA who could stand a chance against Amaterasu (so she'd perform better than CCC Gilgamesh or Kiara) but it was due to her hax. Still, I doubt EXTRA Arc would be above Crimson Moon.
Yeah, the Kagetsu Tohya statement from Roa only says since Altrouge has PM under her control, she might be a "bigger monster than CM in a way". I'm not sure why some people ever took that to mean they are more powerful than him, especially when it says "in a way". They could be, but it's not necessarily the case, and it certainly doesn't mean PM alone is more powerful than CM tbh.
All that tells me is that Altrouge was able to do something CM couldn't do.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
One of the TYPEs killed a continent with its death scream. They're definitely well above Grand tier, at the very least, but Beasts are disgustingly strong and have a ton of hax bullshit on their side.
Kiara gets an insta-win against anything with desire, but what kind of desire could you expect from a gas giant, or a tree that continuously spawns angels? PM gains power as long as there's strife, but what if the alien doesn't believe it's actually fighting, and the task is more like sweeping the house? Tiamat could almost definitely kill one or two of them, but if they can survive her attacks long enough they could probably depopulate the Earth and then clap her so hard they impose whatever their world's version of death is on her once she's weakened.
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