Did Shiki wound Arc on Day 9? I thought that was only on Day 14.Originally Posted by Dartz
Did Shiki wound Arc on Day 9? I thought that was only on Day 14.
Nah, DAAs are probably at the level of Beasts at this point.
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I've been talking about day 14 the entire time.
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I thought you were talking Day 14. Arc never takes Ciel seriously on Day 9.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Personally I just chock this all up to inconsistent scale of nasu stuff.
I still remember fucking spartacus causing earthquakes from his movement in apocrypha for example, or jeanne blocking those strikes.
I think its because its so close to eachother in portrayal vs say in contrast to comic books having decades of inconsistent feats as well as decades of excuses.
Even dragonball has characters still able to destroy planets easily, its just they prefer not to (vs like when freiza pulled a salty planet destruction in the movie if anyone remembers). of course dragonball is still inconsistent.
Personally i expect what some would call anti-feats whenever we get more tsukihime content, its just they havnt had that yet vs fate which has many and many high outlier feats randomly
Yeah that's what I mean. Her backup is shown in action in day 9, and since its increasing mid fight Arc obviously hasn't already adjusted before the fight, but despite this she's still noted to be physically superior to her from the start (Ciel only matches her with skill and focusing on defense). Therefore 30% Arc without backup is physically superior to Ciel.
Well, all the more reason to believe Ciel can only fight defensively against servants.
Also DAAs are most certainly not Beast tier lol, if they were humanity would've been destroyed long ago
Last edited by Clown; August 19th, 2022 at 08:27 PM.
All together? or alone?
Unless you are counting ORT and Primate Murder, I highly doubt that.
And like I said, it's the usual issues you get with series overall but yes, it does happen more often with series that have many different adaptations heralded by different authors even under Nasu's purview.
Like I said before and you say yourself, Dragonball does have characters destroy the Planet and then they just choose not to but again, it would still feel weird that they can start throwing Solar System Busting and then Universal destroying attacks... and nothing happens. It's clearly obvious WHY it doesn't happen in the same fashion that even with the Tsukihime stuff we got, Calvaro Star should have done WAY more damage than it actually does for the power it's stated.
It's the same deal with the Nasuverse, there is plenty of "Anti-Feats" but it's due to primarily avoiding collateral damage because what's the point if you need to defend say the City or a Singularity and then you destroy it in a typical battle?
Fate/Apocrypha and the Manga of the FGO Singularities is a perfect example of this. The LN has what you stated before but while the Anime doesn't show that same scene, it later on has basically Siegfried being able to delete multiple plateaus in a single shockwave and basically everything Sieg and Karna do in their climatic battle but then Achilles and Chiron does nowhere near the similar level of damage despite being seen as Top Tier Servants.
The FGO Manga has Fafnir being able to destroy all of Orleans in a single Dragon Breath and Siegfried is completely confident he can handle it(Never happens in the game, hell, he doesn't even get cursed in the Manga and shows up immediately in the first Volume), Fergus being a complete danger to the entire American Singularity(Which is the size of the United States) with his Caladbolg and him and Fionn basically destroyed an entire city just ramping up previously, Karna and Arjuna basically deleting the Grand Canyon out of existence with just their basic power, etc, etc.
It's why I primarily ignore the "Anti-Feats" deal because it's honestly preposterous on many levels to primarily pick and choose when it's a general problem with most fiction as a whole even outside of how many times it "happens"(We can keep having Doctor Strange get his butt kicked by Spider-Man... but it doesn't stop him when he's able to basically bend the entire Universe to his whims instantly or same deal with Galactus on an even huger scale). But that's me as a VS. Debater and has been doing it for years and seeing people constantly make these generalizations for years.
Even then, I doubt they get anywhere near, even if you include CM & ORT among their numbers.
Goetia was infinitely regenerating, you had to kill every one of his component demon gods at once to kill him, which damn near no Servant could do, and then he was able to hop outside the universe and gather power till he could simultaneously incinerate every moment of human history and theoretically time travel. Tiamat was unkillable unless ridiculous conditions were met, and basically unkillable even then, and could nuke cities at her base, weakest form, and that was her mindless and restraining herself. Kiara uses the planet as a sex toy and insta-wins against anything with desire, Kama makes a universe made entirely out of herself, and neither of them counted as a full Beast. PM's supposed to be a Beast, and one that could theoretically get stronger than any of them, given he was just said to "grow stronger with conflict".
FGO Supports
Well that was Ciel without prep-work. There is a massive difference between regular Ciel and a prepared Ciel with all her equipment.
DAA love humanity more than anyone. They only want to play with them in their own twisted ways. Certainly not wipe them out.Also DAAs are most certainly not Beast tier lol, if they were humanity would've been destroyed long ago
I'm pretty confident on this. You'll see for yourself soon enough. I'm pretty sure we'll get more Tsukihime content in the future. I'm very hopeful.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
To be fair, Primate Murder is a Beast of Gaia and the Garden of Sinners Collab heavily implies Earth could make beings similar to it but as "failed attempts" which are still absolute BS to the point Mephisto sees fighting them as absolutely pointless.
And yeah, I'm honestly still skeptical to see TYPEs being as strong as Beasts even with U-Olga's Point towards ORT as I have heard the main reason why Olga wants to find a better vessel is just due to her Authority being damaged due to the ToE being burned and nothing else. Meaning ORT wouldn't give her a powerboost, but most likely just fix her lost Authority and that's it... but to be fair, I didn't finish LB5.2 yet.
EDIT: FYI, I do play FGO and I even make a topic on the feats and otherwise of the LB adventures in a different forum so I am very, very aware of what Beasts in FGO are capable of and then some so yeah, you have hilariously scratched the surface for Beasts.
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We'll see honestly but I'll be frank:
I'm not downplaying Tsukihime remake in any capacity or where the characters stand at in comparison to the Nasuverse. I just know that despite how some outside see it, Nasu doesn't always heavily contradict himself and even before the Remake came out, he always talked about making the scale of both Fate and Tsukihime be bigger while he was planning on it's release(To the point the later Fate series and adaptations was built with the skeleton of Tsukihime Remake in mind).
So I can't see DAA's being on the level of Beasts when that seems more on the territory of the TYPEs... but even they aren't fully fleshed out yet so even then it's a massive reach and a half given what Beasts have been capable of in FGO in many, many respects.
You just need to break his temple and you win honestly. Well, that's easier said than time for most people but there are toolkits and abilities that can do it.
You don't need to kill all of him at once. You just need to kill the main him/break the temple because he only regenerates thanks to it. He also loses control of his gathered energy and he is fundamentally a mage which is a lot stronger in their territory.
There are a lot of ways I can see ancestors taking care of it. Hell, Gil could probably do it if he wasn't all "this isn't my story."
It is fundamentally a bigger Justeaze = the Grail thing. Actually maybe not even that. But its the same deal.
Ancestors at the very least are very much implied to be a good deal better than servants even in old lore. It's one thing for the comparison to be Heracles, Artoria and Cu Chulainn, because that was the actual comparison in most DAA vs servant things in which its pretty equal and all that, depends on the compatibility according to Nasu.
It's another thing to remember that Dead Apostles have a lot of resources and offspring.
Fighting van Fem vs fighting Van Fem's empire and castle demon golems is a massive difference.
Why would vampires want to wipe out humanity. Their enemy isn't humanity, it's boredom. They play around and do games of politics out of boredom, fight each other and mess around just to have fun and pass the time.Also DAAs are most certainly not Beast tier lol, if they were humanity would've been destroyed long ago
We also have fun things like Merem thinking he can beat Primate Murder + two other ancestors with Gransurg just fine.
I don't think any of powerd Ciel's gear really increases her physical strength (even the Idea Bloods are a big "maybe"), so her parameters should still be about the same. She just has a few extra trump cards now.
No I mean DAA have been beaten by humans in the past yet its stated the humanity wouldn't be able to handle Angra Mainyu, who's the weakest Beast, if he incarnates.
I mean, didn't the DAA that ORT took the spot of believed he can beat ORT? Just because you have them believe they can do it, doesn't mean they can do it.
I'm pretty sure Primate Murder isn't invited to the Aylesbury ritual since he doesn't have the original blood.
"Our goal is to beat up Altrouge."
Why would Altrouge not have her bodyguard pet around.
It's not like the ancestor thought he could beat up ORT-tan. it was a investigationary "I kinda want this" attempt at pokemon capturing it.
I also do not see a reason to doubt that Merem can fight Primate Murder personally. There's a big difference between person killing dog and the super strongest secret optional challenge mode boss.
She didn't have PM when she was fighting Roa lol.
Sure.
Roa also needed a team up between Arcueid and the Church to take down at that point.
In response, Altrouge set out to put the newcomer Dead Apostle in his place, but by that time Roa was already powerful enough to defeat her instead. Of course, it was only natural. Not only was Roa an excellent magus in his own right, but he was able to wield the power of the strongest True Ancestor, Arcueid, at the same time.
The thing is it was Altrouge going out to haze him and getting beaten up instead. If you're instead going after her and trying to beat her up/kill her, she's going to have her bodyguards and pet... and that's the scenario instead of her coming around to haze you or put you in the pecking order?
If the statement regarding ORT and Primate Murder being in their own league still remain true in Remake, i don't see any reason that put DAA in the same league with Beast.
Considering it matches ORT in killing quality and quantity of primates (which dead apostles still probably count as even if they aren't human anymore) then the difference probably won't be too big at least against dead apostles.
Dog-kun is only in a class of his own considering his absolute compatibility against humans according to nasu so.
Sure if its fighting servants and humans Primate Murder will be the strongest, but if its monsters vs monsters, vampires versus dogs there's no reason for him to be so much above.
Among those, Earth rules won't even apply to ORT in the first place and Primate Murder has the super advantage against primates so they're in a league of their own, I suppose.
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