Everything said about the Olympians and their powers is invalidated by the fact that they job so hard its impossible to take anything about them seriously.
Everything said about the Olympians and their powers is invalidated by the fact that they job so hard its impossible to take anything about them seriously.
A TM top tier who doesn't job is no TM top tierOriginally Posted by Petrikow
The Olympians are different because they never actually do anything impressive. In fact, from the story, Zeus especially appears like a brain-deficient incompetent who cannot achieve a single thing.
he just forgot to deactivate his brain power mechanism limiter, please understand.
Just because you aren't under the system doesn't mean you actually have the power to blow up a planet like frieza.
Artemis is not doing that, no.
I'm reminded of when someone tried to argue that Karna could blow up all of Romania, or the United States because his attack is Anti-Nation.
Anti-Fortress isn't concentrated, it's just stronger.Honestly I feel like by that logic Balmung would be anti country too if it was about as spread out as BK. Even so, if Anti-army/Anti-fortress/Anti-country designations were just about the range a certain amount of power is spread over, it would still mean the overall amount of power is about the same regardless of whether its spread out like anti-country or concentrated like anti-fortress.
As far as anti-nation goes we have stuff likeA noble phantasm that is powerful enough to blow away even a sturdy castle. Significantly higher power than anti-unit and anti-army noble phantasms, but it consumes a massive amount of mana and is difficult to use in quick succession. Saber’s Sword of Promised Victory (Excalibur) belongs to this category.
While the typical numbers for Holy Swords/Anti Army tend to beType: Anti-Country Noble Phantasm
Range: 2~90
Maximum Targets: 600 People
Type: Anti-Army
Range: 1-50
Maximum number of targets: 500 people[/quote]
in that sort of range and max targets. It is significantly less in range, but Balmung is also a more of a wave rather than a forward beam concentrated at a point or middle.
Meanwhile we have with Stella
Its range and targets are more like Brahmastra Kundala and other Anti-Nation NPs that are very similar in ranges.Stella (Meteor Streak)
Rank: B++
Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
Range: 1-99
Max. Targets: 900 people
From FGO mats we have the explicit statements of
andDue to the sheer amount of energy used for it, it also doubles as an Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm.
Since it’s affects a wide territory instead of focusing on a single point, it’s classified as an Anty-Army Noble Phantasm, but considering its range, it would make more sense to call it an Anti-Country Noble Phantasm.
so wide aoe focus = Anti-Army, but big range = anti-nation.
Power = Anti-Fortress.
For anti-fortrses high level swords they vastly exceed anti-army, and even match anti-nation for their targets, and sometimes even ranges too.
Gram exceeds Brahmastra Kundala in terms of targets, and can probably kill more people, but has less range so you need to cast it up closer.Type: Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm
Range: 1~50
Maximum Targets: 1~900 People
Bölverk Gram
Excalibur meanwhile mogs everyone else in terms of speed of use, raw power, range and field of effect/max targets.Excalibur
Sword of Promised Victory
Rank: A++
Type: Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm
Range: 1~99
Maximum number of targets: 1000 people
However its nature is that of a single point, a beam that's centered and focused unlike say Balmung and probably Kundala in terms of damage.
So its more like the power is extra concentrated in the middle, and less damaging on the outskirts of the beam in comparison. While Balmung is just even at the middle or to the side.
Last edited by Menwearpink; August 20th, 2022 at 07:46 PM.
That's because of specific nature of Lostbelts as "simulated realities". Surtr could have affected the entire planet if he managed to get the Paper Moon. Khaos, meanwhile, was the real deal AFAIK. He actually came from a different dimension, so the limitations of being a Lostbelt creature shouldn't apply to him.
Vasavi Shakti
TYPE:
Anti-Divine(Earth)
Anti-Army (Moon)
RANK:
EX (Earth)
A++ (Moon)
RANGE:
2~5 (Earth)
40~99 (Moon)
MAXIMUM NUMBER OF TARGETS:
1 person (Earth)
1000 people (Moon)
I really don't understand about the whole range and max number of people thing.
Apo Shakti is a super concentrated kills one person beam that's more powerful because it's a single target attack. Then you get into the whole flowerly "IT can kill anything in its way with its power. But even if you kill the gods a world still vibes and exists, so it doesn't destroy a world."
It is also anti-divine because part of its power is extra damage against divine people.
Extra Shakti is a wider range big anti-army beam that spreads it out so it kills multiple people.
This is why I say that Shakti is kind of weaker than Excalibur. Spread out it's a weaker beam, although it can probably push through Excalibur in the apo version. But it's going to be a worse result than Ea pushing through Excalibur honestly.
It's one of the reasons Karna doesn't really win against Artoria.
Apo VS looks has wider range as shown in the Anime. Extra's range and Max Number exceed anti-nation NP, yet it's still Anti-Army NP and doesn't have the justification for it like Stella.
Its justification is that it basically kills him from the damage it does to him, on top of costing lots of magic energy, and seals all of Karna's thing as a one time NP that's only one step away from Stella in terms of being a suicide NP.
It can at least be a worse Excalibur at that point.
Also super god weapon because Nasu loves his Karna.
Anime visuals are nice hype, but it's not really a good measurement of capabilities. Lore is lore and we know that Nasu and Higashide's idea of it is meant to be a short ranged thing that's barely got more range than Gae Bolg the stab version and it only targets one person.
Your justification for anti-army Vasavi Shakti doesn't make sense. Excalibur literally has the same Max Range and Max Number, it is doesn't cost the user life or capabilities. It's super concentrated yet it's spreading more than anti-country.
The justification is "Why is it so big/strong?"
"This is why."
Why is it anti-army? Probably because it's a wide spread attack that attacks a lot of people. It's a really strong anti-army (A++) but it's still an anti-army. Why does it have a big range and number? probably because it's strong and because its meant to be cool and special as I said. It's probably one of those exceptions like Stella even if it isn't explicitly said like Stella.
Even if it isn't explicitly said it is meant to be something that's worth it to be used theoretically just like Stella so again, its gotta be big because otherwise it doesn't have a reason to exist or be used.
Like what we know is its anti-army. We can only talk about why it is, we can't say it isn't.
The question is if the difference between Anti-Army and anti-country is only about AoE then how come an Anti-Army is still classified as Anti-Army despite having more AoE than anti-country?
If we go by that, then so many characters and Servants are also jobbers and thus it's factually pointless to even have this debate.
Cu is literally THE jobber outside of Heracles and Artoria so nothing they have ever done should be taken seriously. I get your point in the sense that "For all of their awesome power, they didn't do anything worthy of that level of power" but again we go by that and Artoria should very much fit that just as much and hell, so should Remake Arcueid technically speaking. Even the TYPEs are hilariously unimpressive by that metric.
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Just FYI, I'm not sure why anything including Anti-Designations are taken 100% at their word when Vasavi Shakti is Anti-World like Ea but Excalibur is Anti-Fortress even when it's it's 7 Seals are unlocked.
There's also Asterios' NP which states that it can only hold a max of 14 people which doesn't gel with Lostbelt 1 in any fashion where he traps an entire village in it and eats them all or the heavy implication in Fate/Zero Collab, Zhuge Liang may have defeated Iskandar on his own due to his NP, which has nowhere near the max that is required for Iskandar's Army to get caught in it.
There's some things to take around when it comes to the Rankings but the number affected and the Range honestly never made sense as it's never followed up upon in other Fate media or even by Nasu's own penmanship.
This is what I think about power level debates in Type Moon
In what world is Shakti anti-world when it explicitly doesn't work as anti-world or work well against worlds??
Especially when meme parameters and rpg designations come up. Special call out for Nasu math too.
All Power Level Debates are useless and is pretty much only there as a hobby. The only reason it's really done is because if a story is intriguing enough, people will usually go to these extremes to want to know more and theorycrafting usually heads to this direction.
It's ultimately a pointless affair because at the end of the day, Nasu or any of the other Fate writers can say that Hans can defeat Artoria in a fight... but it takes the best writers to have it actually make sense and not just blow away any and all belief in the process. That's why stuff like this still sticks around even though to be frank, all series kinda falls into that same issue for the exact same reason.
Or symbolic numbers becuz it is a nice easter egg. Like how the number 14 in Asterios labyrinth is referencing the 14 sacrificial victims being sent to the minotaur. Number 64 of Void's NP being reference to quite a lot of things in Esoteric Buddhism and Taoism. Number 666 in Kazikli Bey is self explanatory. Number 7 for Kiara's NP referencing the 7 Grand classes cuz it has anti-Grand special attribute. QSH has 6b targets cuz that's the amount of people in his LB he considered to be his subjects...etc.
Is it even math when its literally letters or numbers with no context? its more like fucking school algebra, B + B =
What does 100 mean in range? meters? feet? kilometers? or how about target, person? groups?
And tbh i think nasu does it on purpose, he rarely gives explicit statements or numbers so he can wiggle out of it like a used car salesman
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