Odin alone was able to seal Surtur, an entire pantheon should be able to do the same. And when surtur is able to destroy his lostbelt Godjuna is able to do that and create it again.
Odin alone was able to seal Surtur, an entire pantheon should be able to do the same. And when surtur is able to destroy his lostbelt Godjuna is able to do that and create it again.
Odin and the entire pantheon also died in the process
Odin had the entire norse pantheon and all of them died in the process.Originally Posted by Mementore
Surtr does not need 20 minutes of charge-time to blow up the planet like Arjuna does, and having massive anti-divine capabilities seems pretty nightmarish for a composite divinity.
Surtr doesn't seem that impressive for a god killer tbh, and unlike Arjuna he never blew shit up at all so he's hardly got some advantage of lower charge time.
How is taking out a pantheon of gods in their true bodies and being able to incinerate the planet, unimpressive by any standard? The only thing Arjuna has that surpasses it is Mahapralaya, and he'll never be able to bust it out in a straight fight. Your party gets to throw NPs at him, get explanations from Pepe as to why that's a bad idea, tango with Ashwattama, and still have enough time to run away for a bit before Karna use Kavacha. MP is only useful against opponents that can't harm Arjuna and disrupt the NP's charge. Meanwhile Laevatein is easy use and Arjuna has no defense against it.
I mean Surtr got blocked by a bunch of people that I doubt is beyond Arjuna's capabilities and basically did nothing on Arjuna's level for the most of his appearance. He only has hype, nothing more.
Correction. He got blocked by Heracles, who can accomplish miracles, and had a high-servant for a master. Boosted by Sigurd and Brynhildr amplifying him with Primordial runes, and finally, a lostbelt king Skadi putting up divine shields. All of which, amounted to nothing but stalling for a few moments. Where even if Mashu with her noble phantasm, the same NP that can negate Ivan's thunder, it's said nothing would have changed.
The one who saved them was Napoleon, backed by the counterforce, and is a man of miracles whose entire sheet is centered on making the impossible, possible.
Nothing suggests Arjuna can replicate this.Napoleon:
…Sorry, recruit.
A trump card is a move that needs to go further and beyond the maximum output. Overloading, in other words.
Something like this can only be done once---
Although this can only happen under these particular conditions, in exchange for my Saint Graph and spiritual core, a super skill can be unleashed.
That is also one possibility.
At times! An artilleryman thin in Mystery may stand alongside the greatest of heroes!
Hype are accolades suggesting somebody is capable of achieving something. Surtr has done it. The lostbelt is pruned because of him. Using silly logic like this, Zeus himself isn't impressive at all, considering he accomplished significantly less than Surtr did.He only has hype, nothing more.
I dunno about that last qualification on Zeus
LB Zeus does have some impressive feats of his own, I don't think this particular argument holds up.
Which ultimately results in Surtr doing fuck all in the LB, considering he's built up as the apocalypse with a boost from Fenrir. And considering Arjuna doing what Surtr does on a regular basis is also what led to that timeline getting pruned, I'm not sure why Surtr should be backed in this fight. He doesn't do shit when he pops up, gets blocked by people far below his paygrade, and ultmately gets beaten by Servants not as boosted as Super Karna and without Chaldea needing to undermine him in a specific manner like they did to Arjuna.
Last edited by AAM1232; August 13th, 2020 at 11:53 PM.
Surtr specifically has a biggass super-anti-god sword. And Arjuna Alter is a whole lotta gods.
Like this Surtr's whole deal is that he killed an entire pantheon. And Arjuna Alter is an entire pantheon...
Compatibility isn't everything though, and I don't know why you're treating it like it is. Fact remains that Surtr got stopped by weaker opposition, and Junao can actually do things without needing to jump through a few hoops, while Surtr couldn't do much in his appearance.
inb4 death rune
I know, and I agree. I'm arguing that logic makes no sense. Saying Surtr is unimpressive because he failed to destroy the planet in LB2, is like saying Zeus is unimpressive because he failed to destroy the planet in LB5, which was about the only real thing he attempted in the present. Surtr at least took servants down with him. Zeus didn't manage to beat anyone. It's easy to downplay when you totally omit context.
Not important. We know Surtr's powers. Him being defeated does not matter in the face of that, because the protagonists had all the advantages in the world against him
Because Arjuna needed several minutes to do what Surtr can in a few seconds.And considering Arjuna doing what Surtr does on a regular basis is also what led to that timeline getting pruned, I'm not sure why Surtr should be backed in this fight. He doesn't do shit when he pops up, gets blocked by people far below his paygrade, and ultmately gets beaten by Servants not as boosted as Super Karna and without Chaldea needing to undermine him in a specific manner like they did to Arjuna.
And, "far below his paygrade"? "without chaldea needing to undermine him"?
Are you basically admitting you didn't read LB2?
These are the circumstances leading to Surtr's defeat. Asides what's listed here
-Surtr had his contract with Ophelia terminated, making him no different from a masterless servantCorrection. He got blocked by Heracles, who can accomplish miracles, and had a high-servant for a master. Boosted by Sigurd and Brynhildr amplifying him with Primordial runes, and finally, a lostbelt king Skadi putting up divine shields. All of which, amounted to nothing but stalling for a few moments. Where even if Mashu with her noble phantasm, the same NP that can negate Ivan's thunder, it's said nothing would have changed.
The one who saved them was Napoleon, backed by the counterforce, and is a man of miracles whose entire sheet is centered on making the impossible, possible.
Napoleon:
…Sorry, recruit.
A trump card is a move that needs to go further and beyond the maximum output. Overloading, in other words.
Something like this can only be done once---
Although this can only happen under these particular conditions, in exchange for my Saint Graph and spiritual core, a super skill can be unleashed.
That is also one possibility.
At times! An artilleryman thin in Mystery may stand alongside the greatest of heroes!
Nothing suggests Arjuna can replicate this.
-Ophelia uses Sirius Light to buff Sigurd. Sigurd and Brynhildr being in the age of gods Scandinavia, making them more powerful than normal. Brynhildr especially can use primordial runes without dying anymore.
-Surtr gained the properties of Fafnir, giving Sigurd the ultimate level of compatibility against him.
-Mash's defenses can stop attacks from Lostbelt kings
-Skadi buffing everyone with her magic Ereshkigal-style. In case you've forgotten, this is the LB King who took Odin's powers, and could freeze the continent.
This is quite a bit more drastic than you deliberately make it seem. So yeah, I'm backing the guy who can destroy the world with ease and has super anti-god capabilities over the walking pantheon who has to stand there charging forever and needs his wall to save him.
Ah yes the few seconds he had where he did nothing but walk around and talk to Ophelia about burning the world without actually burning the world. I mean if you're going to apply the time limit to Arjuna, what about Surtr who did nothing with his time?
Also, I'll never understand this "Herc can do miracles, so context and scaling is not needed" BS.
How does Surtr having a conversation with Ophelia and making her give him the energy to use his noble phantasm, which has burned the world, and has everyone saying it can burn the world, compare to Arjuna gathering mana for several long minutes, every time he has to use Mahapralaya? One is intrinsic to the noble phantasm, the other isn't.
Then you probably should read FSN as well. Specifically, the part where he died 22 times over and still revived despite God Hand's stock being used up prior. And even then, he's not the show-stealer here. He had massive amounts of backup, and all of them were going to fail. It's Napoleon who saved the day, being someone who can make miracles at the cost of his life. The injury to Surtr's head later playing a role in his defeat.Also, I'll never understand this "Herc can do miracles, so context and scaling is not needed" BS.
Last edited by Ronove; August 14th, 2020 at 12:56 AM.
FSN is one thing, but blocking Surtr's swing is hardly one considering the backup and the fact that it's not as effective on Servants.
And this is all assuming Surtr does everything while Arjuna just AFKs close to him. I mean even compatibility doesn't do that.
What if. Hot take.
Junao isn’t actually that super amazing compared to how he presented himself actually
Neither is Surtr by that logic, such a great hot take.
Debatable. He was stopped by a collection of gods, a Heroic Spirit directly boosted by the Counter Force who poured all of that into a single attack, a Heroic Spirit employing Odin's super-duper runes, and a Heroic Spirit with overwhelming compatibility advantage against him (he was becoming Fafnir, and Sigurd had already killed Fafnir).
I mean, overall, they really could have done more to show him off, much like they had done with Tiamat earlier, but it's not as if Surtur doesn't have an impressive showing, and it's not as if any of his pre-story deeds are contradicted by what we do see of him.
That said, I'm not weighing in on the actual Surtur vs. God Arjuna fight. I have yet to see the latter.
out of curiosity since i have seen it in a recent fictional character, do you guys know any other characters with abilities similar to Anastasia's Mystic Eyes and NP?
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