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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #125521
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Medusa has the eyes and Alex seemingly has no army or chariot, Alex insta-dead.
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  2. #125522
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post

    That said, Achilles at a run just sprinted right through an army, tearing to pieces golems way tougher than Vlad's wooden stakes. He's also fast enough that Chiron, who taught Achilles, and also has precognition, was barely able to keep up. So yeah, Vlad needs to get seriously lucky just to catch Achilles with the points of his stakes, and even then, unless they hit him directly in his heel, they're going to be as useless as nipples on a humvee. At most, he can put up lines of stakes pointing vaguely in the direction he thinks Achilles is coming from.
    question.

    how long can you keep your speed and momentum going if you are facetanking a river of spears as you try to push forward?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

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  3. #125523
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    As long as you can put your feet on the ground.

    He's already run his way through an army of stone golems specifically made to try and combat Servants. They'd be a lot tougher to run through than a forest of fairly thin wooden spikes.
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  4. #125524
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    As long as you can put your feet on the ground.

    He's already run his way through an army of stone golems specifically made to try and combat Servants. They'd be a lot tougher to run through than a forest of fairly thin wooden spikes.
    fairly certain that he needed the chariot for that and the golems still stopped him by turning into cement.

    also, are you saying that you can keep pushing a literaly wall with your face and still run at your full speed? those spears are rooted into the ground. they aren't just flying projectiles. if you push against them, you are inevitably pushing against the ground as well
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
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  5. #125525
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    He then got off the chariot and destroyed a bunch of them by running through them.
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  6. #125526
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    fairly certain that he needed the chariot for that and the golems still stopped him by turning into cement.

    also, are you saying that you can keep pushing a literaly wall with your face and still run at your full speed? those spears are rooted into the ground. they aren't just flying projectiles. if you push against them, you are inevitably pushing against the ground as well
    Considering that the golems were blown past with Comet Form, I'm not sure where this ridiculous argument is going. Oh no, he blew past the golems, that totally means he can't charge forward with his shield up vs Vlad's stakes?

  7. #125527
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    He then got off the chariot and destroyed a bunch of them by running through them.
    no he didn't.

    are you not confusing yourself with the anime?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Considering that the golems were blown past with Comet Form, I'm not sure where this ridiculous argument is going. Oh no, he blew past the golems, that totally means he can't charge forward with his shield up vs Vlad's stakes?
    1- he never did that in the LN

    2- the stakes are strong enough to pierce both spartacus and the golems, so they are sturdier and have more force behind them than you seem to give them credit for

    3- good luck supplying that divine construct for an extended period of time
    Last edited by fire_mountain_30; May 4th, 2020 at 04:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  8. #125528
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    no he didn't.

    are you not confusing yourself with the anime?

    - - - Updated - - -



    1- he never did that in the LN

    2- the stakes are strong enough to pierce both spartacus and the golems, so they are sturdier and have more force behind them than you seem to give them credit for

    3- good luck supplying that divine construct for an extended period of time
    Ah yes, stakes which can't pierce Achilles anywhere apart from his heel or his shield at all are going to be very helpful in a fight between Vlad and Achilles. What brilliant logic.

    You say that it's going to cost a lot like it means anything, considering its relatively manageable cost is one of the reasons Astolfo could use it in the first place. Have you read the LN?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    no he didn't.

    are you not confusing yourself with the anime?

    - - - Updated - - -



    1- he never did that in the LN

    2- the stakes are strong enough to pierce both spartacus and the golems, so they are sturdier and have more force behind them than you seem to give them credit for

    3- good luck supplying that divine construct for an extended period of time

    Any reason you're arguing against what's been established in canon material already? Achilles has already fought against Vlad...and 8 other of Apocrypha's servants simultaneously. He came out of the battle just fine.

  10. #125530
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    He did not come out just fine (he notes they were capable of hurting him even though they weren't supposed to have Divinity), they were fighting more like machines than themselves (so they weren't as dangerous as usual), and even then he was convinced it was an impossible thing to do and only managed to do so because Chiron specifically trained him for that scenario.
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    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  11. #125531
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    Any reason you're arguing against what's been established in canon material already? Achilles has already fought against Vlad...and 8 other of Apocrypha's servants simultaneously. He came out of the battle just fine.
    Ah yes, the FGO scenario.

    where you had computer generated versions inside a grail fueled simulation as opposed to the real thing.

    how much do you treat the fights inside HA as accurate representations btw?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Ah yes, stakes which can't pierce Achilles anywhere apart from his heel or his shield at all are going to be very helpful in a fight between Vlad and Achilles. What brilliant logic.

    You say that it's going to cost a lot like it means anything, considering its relatively manageable cost is one of the reasons Astolfo could use it in the first place. Have you read the LN?

    1- Astolfo has his own reserves

    2- Sieg is his master and he has a ton of mana

    3- do you know for a fact that the mana price came from anyone in the black faction considering that it was Achilles' shield and that he was still alive at the time?



    ok, going to explain to you veeeeeery slowly since you dont seem to get basic simulations

    you have 1 dude holding a mattress

    is the mattress going to hurt you? probably not much

    now you try ramming and pushing against that guy IRL and assume for argument's sake that there is a second dude behind the first supporting him and putting extra pressure on you.

    are you going to get hurt? not really.

    will you be able to sprint at full speed at the same time that you are pushing against that wall? probably not. you may barely be able to move.

    and to all of the above, add someone trying to stab you in the foot at the same time or touching you and causing spikes to grow out of your heart
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    With Grail Mud, I got rid of all my extraneous divinity, two feet of height, and a burning desire to get revenge on the Gods! Try Grail Mud today!

  12. #125532
    Beats By Matthew ft. Dr. Para Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    (he notes they were capable of hurting him even though they weren't supposed to have Divinity)
    Darnic used magecraft to give everyone Divinity.
    Supports:


    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  13. #125533
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    He did not come out just fine (he notes they were capable of hurting him even though they weren't supposed to have Divinity), they were fighting more like machines than themselves (so they weren't as dangerous as usual), and even then he was convinced it was an impossible thing to do and only managed to do so because Chiron specifically trained him for that scenario.
    You're mixing up quotes.
    He did not come out just fine (he notes they were capable of hurting him even though they weren't supposed to have Divinity),
    I don't think this was the night battle. This should have happened later on when Darnic started giving everyone divinity. Either way, Achilles never got his heel tagged in the fight.
    fighting more like machines than themselves (so they weren't as dangerous as usual),
    Nowhere was it said they were less dangerous. They were more predictable (in the vein that a berserker is "predictable"). The clones spam NPs with reckless abandon at every opportunity. Attending to that gap is the time for Achilles and the others to dodge the NPs coming their way. He had to do this for a full night against multiple beams noble phantasms and Vlad's stakes. Vlad by himself doesn't sound like an issue at all.
    he was convinced it was an impossible thing to do and only managed to do so because Chiron specifically trained him for that scenario
    First? Chiron made an ambiguous statement saying the best way to handle the servants was to beat all of them at the same time. That's what Achilles calls impossible. Chiron then elaborates by saying they only have to hold off 9 while Sieg and Guda off three of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Ah yes, the FGO scenario.

    where you had computer generated versions inside a grail fueled simulation as opposed to the real thing.

    how much do you treat the fights inside HA as accurate representations btw?
    It'd probably be better you read the story (both of them) before missing the mark like this.

  14. #125534
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    For the record, I don't agree Vlad can reliably hit Achilles in the heel, and I seriously doubt there's even a chance of that if Achilles uses the chariot. I'm just pointing out the FGO event isn't as clear-cut of a scenario ("Achilles can fight all other Servants at once!") as has traditionally been presented here. Achilles is aghast that Chiron thinks the two of them together can hold off all nine Servants and their Noble Phantasms at once, and Chiron specifically says that it's doable exactly because they just spam their NPs without thought or strategy. So not exactly a good argument for "Achilles can always dodge Vlad's NP" even if I agree with the premise.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  15. #125535
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    Ah yes, the FGO scenario.

    where you had computer generated versions inside a grail fueled simulation as opposed to the real thing.

    how much do you treat the fights inside HA as accurate representations btw?

    - - - Updated - - -




    1- Astolfo has his own reserves

    2- Sieg is his master and he has a ton of mana

    3- do you know for a fact that the mana price came from anyone in the black faction considering that it was Achilles' shield and that he was still alive at the time?



    ok, going to explain to you veeeeeery slowly since you dont seem to get basic simulations

    you have 1 dude holding a mattress

    is the mattress going to hurt you? probably not much

    now you try ramming and pushing against that guy IRL and assume for argument's sake that there is a second dude behind the first supporting him and putting extra pressure on you.

    are you going to get hurt? not really.

    will you be able to sprint at full speed at the same time that you are pushing against that wall? probably not. you may barely be able to move.

    and to all of the above, add someone trying to stab you in the foot at the same time or touching you and causing spikes to grow out of your heart
    Akhilleus Kosmos from Apo Mats:

    Akhilleus Kosmos. Achilles’ trump card which protects the wielder by deploying a miniature world. A divine armament created by the hands of the blacksmith god Hephaestus. It can event against nearly any attack, whether it be from an Anti-Unit, Anti-Army, Anti-Fortress or even Anti-Country Noble Phantasm. However, due to this Noble Phantasm’s nature, it is weak against Anti-World Noble Phantasms alone.

    A description of this shield appears in a hundred lines of text in Book 18 of the “Illiad”. Hephaestus reproduced the world he lived in itself in miniature form in this shield.

    In the light novel, Achilles doesn’t use it himself, gave it over to Astolfo for him to use. Naturally, transferring Noble Phantasms would normally never happen in a regular Holy Grail War. Even in the Great Holy Grail War, it would normally be unthinkable.

    In the first place, most Noble Phantasms are tied to the legends of heroes. Even if you were to borrow Gae Bolg from the blue spearman, that doesn’t mean you would be able to activate Gae Bolg.
    However, there are exceptions. In this case, in addition to the necessary conditions of “being where he is making a contract, instead of being in opposition, of his own volition” and the Noble Phantasm “not requiring considerable skill and power to invoke its true name”, it is believed that the transfer of the Noble Phantasm went smoothly because there is “an episode in the legend of the giver (Achilles) where he loans his Noble Phantasms” and “an episode in the legend of the receiver (Astolfo) where he borrows a Noble Phantasm”.

    In addition, when Achilles alone wields it, this shield can be used to “attack” as well. After deploying the Noble Phantasm, he would aim to crush the enemy with that miniature world by continuously pushing forward. Most likely, Hephaestus never thought of such a method of using it.
    I'd ask you to read, but it's clearly very difficult for you so I've highlighted the relevant part to make things easier. As for your dumb assumptions, you can stop making them as it's pretty clear you don't have a clue of what you want to say. Considering you're comparing a mattress to a shield that only breaks to VS and Anti-World attacks, of which Vlad's spikes do not fall into.

  16. #125536
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    For the record, I don't agree Vlad can reliably hit Achilles in the heel, and I seriously doubt there's even a chance of that if Achilles uses the chariot. I'm just pointing out the FGO event isn't as clear-cut of a scenario ("Achilles can fight all other Servants at once!") as has traditionally been presented here. Achilles is aghast that Chiron thinks the two of them together can hold off all nine Servants and their Noble Phantasms at once, and Chiron specifically says that it's doable exactly because they just spam their NPs without thought or strategy. So not exactly a good argument for "Achilles can always dodge Vlad's NP" even if I agree with the premise.
    It's doable because NP spam gives them a signal to dodge the attack. This take away from how impressive it has to be to watch out for 9 servants simultaneously busting out wide-range NPs for 12 hours and the fact that they are still fighting the whole time? No. No chance in hell.
    Last edited by Ronove; May 4th, 2020 at 08:21 PM.

  17. #125537
    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    ok, going to explain to you veeeeeery slowly since you dont seem to get basic simulations
    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    I'd ask you to read, but it's clearly very difficult for you so I've highlighted the relevant part to make things easier. As for your dumb assumptions, you can stop making them as it's pretty clear you don't have a clue of what you want to say.
    Good old insults are a staple of this thread but you gotta use them sparingly and not in what seems like every single argument you two get into. Dial it back a bit, can ya?

  18. #125538
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire_mountain_30 View Post
    how much do you treat the fights inside HA as accurate representations btw?
    I didn't know there was anyone who didn't
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
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  19. #125539
    It's ok, in a few years we will still have some people who convince themselves FGO isn't canon

  20. #125540
    There is no canon. It is only your mind that bends.

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