I don't see how Kirschtaria = Zeus? Like we beat him without Grands and shit, unlike Zeus.
I don't see how Kirschtaria = Zeus? Like we beat him without Grands and shit, unlike Zeus.
It was told to us as early as Atlantis.Originally Posted by AAM1232
The party was seconds from being roadkill to Rhongomyniad, something that could uproot the fantasy tree, but Kirsch was able to cancel it out. Kirsch's weakness is that he can't fight prolonged battles with his magic circuits frying.In Ancient Greece, the world, the sky and the cosmos are all different layers, and so the quality of their magical energy are different. Kirschtaria’s magecraft draws power from the cosmos, the laws governing space, allowing him to force the stars to align, and utilizing them as a magic circuit. This is what lets him drop meteors. Da Vinci says that Kirschtaria may have even greater strength than the King of this Lostbelt, and that he is at the apex of humanity.
Da Vinci says "may" and the actual fights we have with both of them clearly disprove this notion.
Chaldea records that Kirsctaria's meteors rival Artemis's canon. Which in turn are stated to rival Zeus by Odysseus. The mana infused in Zeus' lightning bolts are also stated equal to Artemis' canon later in Olympus, so the math checks out.
Kirschtaria wasn't defeated. He was uninjured but stopped fighting, again because protracted battles work against someone on a strict time-limit, and Chaldea is amazing at defensive battles.
He is actually as strong as Zeus, according to the AI that Tesla left behind. He fought Zeus and Zeus formed a mutual contract with him as a true god to a true god. Demeter was scared of Kirshtaria due to him can easily destroy her machine form, and he also easily killed the LB's Dioscuri, who are comparable to the machine form of Apollo. Basically Kirshtaria has enough power to destroy the machine gods easily just like Zeus who fought all 11 of them and defeated them in the past, thus he is equal to Zeus. Originally he wanted a fight between Masters so he just stood on the side to buff Caenis and restore her break gauges. We "beat" him (in gameplay, story-wise he decided to stop midway) after being buffed by his "turn everyone into gods'' plan and the alien god itself tried to take back the life it granted Kirschtaria because it realized that he is a traitor, he was grabbing his chest in extreme pain prior to the battle. So he was nerf by the alien god itself. The heart attack had quite extreme effect on him as he was only able to fire his big nuke with the invincibility pierce at the beginning, then he couldn't do that again afterwards unlike the fight in Atlantis where the invul + def pierce is permanant unremovable buff. It's pretty much like how after GodArjuna was breaking apart in LB4, he no longer has invul pierce, making his attacks no longer unblockable.
It probably would cause the same effect as it does to the Types, they also had no death concept. Probably would put her into a deep sleep like with Type-Venus, they're very similar afterall.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; July 18th, 2020 at 02:09 AM.
We didn’t have two grands against Tiamat no?
either way as far as Ars Salmon Bagel goes I guess it could do more damage than roasting the surface of the planet if he decided to use all his stockpiled energy. But on one hand while that built up energy is what qualifies him as beast 1, can we really say it’s full use is part of his general combat capabilities if he will not use it to blow someone up for obvious reasons?
in any case it depends. I believe Zeus can more than rival the destruction of Goetia in their beams, and as far as defenses, concepts to pull on and such Zeus is definitely scarier.
Merlin and King Hassan.
Earth's surface is a full texture or so I've read on Garden of Avalon. Ars Almadel Salomonis can set it, and even parts of the reverse side of the world on fire. It's powered by all of humanity for 3000 years, and as shown through Kama and Astarte-Origin, humanity is a resource that can burn the universe or change its laws of physics. And Goetia can fire it at any time. Zeus can't immediately use his anti-galaxy stuff. Never had the chance for an entire fight. If we want to talk defense, you can't even reach Goetia normally because he exists in his own time temple in imaginary number space. So long as the throne exists, you can destroy him anywhere and he'll keep reviving. While he can incinerate the timeline or even time travel to the dawn of the planet.either way as far as Ars Salmon Bagel goes I guess it could do more damage than roasting the surface of the planet if he decided to use all his stockpiled energy. But on one hand while that built up energy is what qualifies him as beast 1, can we really say it’s full use is part of his general combat capabilities if he will not use it to blow someone up for obvious reasons?
in any case it depends. I believe Zeus can more than rival the destruction of Goetia in their beams, and as far as defenses, concepts to pull on and such Zeus is definitely scarier.
Merlin isn't a Grand in Babylonia.
Merlin was just a candidate.
FGO Supports
Not even a servant/HS really
Merlin says the only reason he could appear at all in the singularity is because a beast was there, same as King Hassan. There is no such thing that confirms grand candidates. You either are one, or not. Merlin said he wasn't a grand "right then", which can easily refer to the fact that he was an illusion of a servant following your party around instead of the real deal.Merlin
Class: Grand Caster
True Name: Merlin
Gender: Male
Source: Legend of King Arthur, and others
Region: Western Europe
Alignment: Lawful Good
Height: 178 cm
Weight: 68 kg
Didn't stop Quirinus. Won't stop someone with Independent Manifestation.
Last edited by Ronove; July 18th, 2020 at 08:25 PM.
Except in Babylonia he explicitly states he isn't a Grand. But sure, ignore the person directly saying so and the fact that he's abusing IM to fake being a Servant. Quirinus on the other hand is a HS as Romulus so why bring that up?
From Chapter 2 of Babylonia. Nothing indicates in the final battle that Merlin was a Grand. Unless you also think Romani-Solomon was a Grand as well.＠Merlin
Fuhahaha!
Thank you providing precisely the introduction I expected, Romani Archaman!
Indeed, I would be the Grand Caster, Merlin-Oniisan.
A magus amongst magi!
Though, actually — as I merely bear the qualifications of a Grand, and a standard Saint Graph —
I'm just an ordinary Caster, you know?
Honestly, Merlin, both times, was far too weak to be considered a Grand. King Hassan, the Grand Assassin, which is to say, the Grand of the weakest class, was able to murderise Ozy in his own temple, casually throw up a sandstorm that covered the entirety of Camelot, and slap down sun-buffed, Rhongo-Blessing'd Gawain. With his cape. Grand Romulus apparently went head to head with Super Mega Ultra Zord Zeus. Orion shot down a space satellite god.
A Grand Caster would've been ridiculously powerful, and Merlin showed nothing on that level.
FGO Supports
They've already wanked Merlin considerably from his base, I don't wanna even imagine what they'd have to do power level wise to justify turning him into a Grand. @_@
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
I mean Grands are generally announced, not declared after the fact in mats. KH got hyped up and revealed as a Grand by Merlin, Orion states he's relinquishing his status as a Grand in the buildup to OAM and Romulus-Quirinus introduces himself as Grand Lancer. Merlin and Solomon vs Goetia never do this.
Who is ignoring anything?
This is something he directly keeps a secret from your party. The real servant version of Merlin is the one keeping Tiamat at bay in a dream. Rather, it suggests that his actual saint graph is much larger than they're perceiving right there, as what's in front of them is a mirage.Merlin said he wasn't a grand "right then", which can easily refer to the fact that he was an illusion of a servant following your party around instead of the real deal.
From Chapter 2 of Babylonia. Nothing indicates in the final battle that Merlin was a Grand.Spoiler:
You mean besides his powers being on the grand level, and directly comparing his situation to King Hassan's? But yes, let's act like the guy who is called grand caster in materials and calls himself that in lines, isn't the grand caster.
Considering Solomon breezed through everything Goetia threw at him, prompting Goetia to use AAS to do the job, I'd say it doesn't even matter. If that Solomon isn't a grand, then he doesn't even need a grand graph at that point.Merlin and Solomon vs Goetia never do this.
Merlin neutralized Tiamat's authority by circumventing the chaos tide. Additionally.
Each of those things is stronger than a demon god on the level of a divine spirit. The 11 of them are equal to Goetia's 72 according to Nasu, and just 1 pillar is a tough fight for Mordred and Siegfried. Merlin brutalized them and could fend off three at a time, receiving no injury to himself throughout the entire duration. King Hassan himself is there, and had trouble with that number. Also compare that to Orion, where:
Needed a command spell, needed Achilles' armor to be made into a bow and still died in the attempt because pulling the bow was too damaging to his saint graph. So how's Merlin not ridiculously powerful again?Orion shot down a space satellite god.
Last edited by Ronove; July 18th, 2020 at 09:56 PM.
Mats call Solomon a Grand, when we never see Grand Caster Solomon, only Goetia's cosplay and a transformed Romani. And ignoring Merlin's situation as someone immortal and alive for the hypothesis that he can spoof a Grand SG with IM/Illusion is not exactly a well supported theory, let alone a fact.
Says who?
None of this is a refutation. To begin with, grand SG in both Solomon and Quirinus' case, is just a way for them house their original power. And even Solomon as a heroic spirit is inferior to the original. Merlin in his living body already has feats on that level and way above that of ordinary servants, see the above post.only Goetia's cosplay and a transformed Romani. And ignoring Merlin's situation as someone immortal and alive for the hypothesis that he can spoof a Grand SG with IM/Illusion is not exactly a well supported theory, let alone a fact.
Says the story? Which names 3 Grands, none of whom are Merlin or Solomon.
You're asking people to jump through a lot of hoops for the Merlin is a Grand argument though, when it's already stated he's an immortal stuck in Avalon who uses IM to cosplay as a Servant and goes when he pleases, like to America to save Mash and such. Would be nice to have more than just a mats entry.
I'm sorry. Where's it said the story must call someone a grand for them to be a grand? Did Solomon and Merlin's feats of neutralizing beasts not clue you in? Or Solomon being called that in his profile, in his materials, or Merlin calling Solomon grand caster in the same post you quoted?
This is not an argument. This is not a refutation. It is you suggesting a pattern must be followed consistently for something to ring true (which it does regardless), and you won't accept it unless spoonfed in exactly the way you want it to be. That is not my problem.Also, I'm a Grand Caster! Same tier as Solomon! All other Servants, especially casters, look upon me with a mixture of jealousy and envy! But in the end all of them must admit defeat and relegate themselves to being second-rate. That's unavoidable fate!
"The character who is called grand caster and has the powers befitting grand caster, totally isn't grand caster." If there's nothing left but your denial, I'm done.You're asking people to jump through a lot of hoops for the Merlin is a Grand argument though, when it's already stated he's an immortal stuck in Avalon who uses IM to cosplay as a Servant and goes when he pleases, like to America to save Mash and such. Would be nice to have more than just a mats entry.
Last edited by Ronove; July 18th, 2020 at 10:27 PM.
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