Badass Versus Thread

[Dartz]

Eh, I feel like by that logic every servant's power is nebulous and irrelevant because their power also depends on their energy reserves and whether they can process it effectively.

The difference is she can always one-up the opponent, but if she is injured or recovering she would leave herself open since she'd be in a lot of pain.

I think it's pretty likely that it's not the actual size and weight of the moon since it's been consistently considerably smaller in all of its depictions (Melty Blood games & manga, carnival phantasm, Fate/Extra). Besides, if it was the size and weight of the actual moon, CM would be destroying himself alongside Zel as well as ruining his own plans to rebuild his kingdom on Earth since the Earth would literally be destroyed. Also Aoko vs Flat Snark isn't on a very big scale in the first place, it wouldn't take much to be "on a completely different scale" from it.

Those are non-canon material and gameplay visuals. It's a mirror image, not a miniature replica. Besides, it's clearly dropped on top of a texture and not the earth itself, since CM had to be able to use MP.
After all the requirement for being a Brunestud is manifesting the Millenium Castle with MP.

A city weighs much more than 7000 tons. Arc is nowhere near Quet's level of strength.

lol, I mean

Spoiler:

she crushed a Grand Sorcery Idea Blood that's a dimension of 30kms of pure concrete compressed into a small space in one hit just by getting a bit angry. You get a massive exposition on how powerful the defensive spell is and she just shatters it instantly. Comedy gold.

Achilles

Impressive, but clearly not on the same level. We're talking about stuff that completely changes the landscape, which is reflected by getting entirely new background CGs.

[Daiki]

You can feel the desperation, truly.

[AAM1232]

Arc isn't a bog standard TA by any means so going further on this tangent seems kind of pointless really.

[Clown]

The difference is she can always one-up the opponent, but if she is injured or recovering she would leave herself open since she'd be in a lot of pain.

I think always one-upping her opponent is just a function of her backup from the planet, which is something entirely seperate from her normal strength and not just a matter of how much mana reserves she has, since her backup is said to boost her "Life Scale" above what it normally is and is distinct from her profile's parameters.

since CM had to be able to use MP.

Doubt it. I'm pretty sure the entire reason why CM made true ancestors to reincarnate into in the first place is because he wasn't a part of the Earth. Marble Phantasm is an ability unique to beings such as True Ancestors that are so close to the Earth they can practically freely manipulate it. While it's possible that on the moon he might have his own MP equivalent due to having authority over it, theres no way he has MP on Earth.

After all the requirement for being a Brunestud is manifesting the Millenium Castle with MP.

Brunestud doesn't manifest his castle with MP, his castle is his reality marble (other true ancestors don't have the RM so they can only manifest it with MP). There's no way CM can avoid killing himself/destroying the planet if he drops something the same size and weight of the moon. Mirror Image doesn't neccessarily mean 1:1 identical, it could also denote resemblance, and seeing as how it's never even close to the size of the moon every single time it's used from manga to games, I doubt its actually that strong. Especially considering how being able to drop the actual moon would put him on a much higher level than every other TYPE, who can only destroy parts of continents despite being all but confirmed to be more powerful than CM.

Spoiler:

she crushed a Grand Sorcery Idea Blood that's a dimension of 30kms of pure concrete compressed into a small space in one hit just by getting a bit angry. You get a massive exposition on how powerful the defensive spell is and she just shatters it instantly. Comedy gold.

Looked up what I think you were talking about. If I'm not wrong, it seems like all Arc did was break a barrier that had the same durability as the entire Strasbourg cathedral in one blow, which while impressive still doesn't seem on the level of Quetz's strength feat.

[Hyug]

despite being all but confirmed to be more powerful than CM.

Based on?

[Clown]

Based on?

Brunestud, for one, never destroyed even a small part of a continent at any point during his time on Earth and some of his most notable attacks are only in the kilometers range. Also, unlike ORT, Brunestud doesn't passively overpower the world and terraform the Earth with his reality marble which also implies he's significantly weaker. Additionally, Zelretch basically confirms all of humanity will go extinct if ORT wakes up early, while Brunestud was defeated by a single human.

Also ORT and Primate Murder are said to be on a league of their own in a group that includes CM.

[Mementore]

Crimson Moon is as strong as Archetype Earth:

The phantom that appears behind her back is her original form. Its appearance, abilities, and very thoughts could be called the Crimson Moon.

And Archetype Earth is the closest to being Earth's Ultimate One (strongest lifeform):

fgo 7th anniversary

In the world of Tsukihime, the strongest existence of a celestial body is known as the Ultimate One (Original One), a position that the awakened Arcueid is applicable for. However, until things are settled with Altrouge, a being 'that forms the celestial' on the same scale, she cannot be referred to as the 'ONE'.

Also, there is no proof that Crimson Moon doesn't have some Crystal Valley-like ability and Zelretch isn't exactly a normal human.

[Clown]

While some magi and the 27 Ancestors control internal worlds called "Reality Marbles", the one that ORT has is on a completely different level.

The 27 Ancestors include CM, we already know his RM is just his castle. My point was Zelretch states humanity (himself included) won't be prepared to fight ORT until another century, while Zelretch alone was able to successfully destroy CM all the way 1700 years ago, implying ORT is a threat on a completely different level compared to CM. This wouldn't make sense if CM was a planet buster unlike every other TYPE.

[Mementore]

The 27 Ancestors include CM, we already know his RM is just his castle.

Later that got kinda retconned in only half of the 27 having a RM and we don't know if CM has one.

Tsukihime Remake

Also in the remake RM probably got replaced with the Ancestors'Principles, which resemble Crystal Valley a lot.

My point was Zelretch states humanity (himself included) won't be prepared to fight ORT until another century, while Zelretch alone was able to successfully destroy CM all the way 1700 years ago, implying ORT is a threat on a completely different level compared to CM.

Zelretch is much weaker in the present than he was 1700 years ago.

This wouldn't make sense if CM was a planet buster unlike every other TYPE.

The other types' feats are from Notes, if they appeared again they'd likely be much stronger, just like Arcueid got buffed in the Tsuki Re.
And anyway, CM doesn't need to be a planet buster to beat Karna, Gilgamesh and Artoria.

[Clown]

Later that got kinda retconned in only half of the 27 having a RM and we don't know if CM has one.

Tsukihime Remake

All we know is Vlov doesn't have one and he's a newcomer in the first place so it's not like his reality marble was removed. Roa still seems to have his. We don't know the state of any of the other DAAs.

Tsukihime Remake

Also in the remake RM probably got replaced with the Ancestors'Principles, which resemble Crystal Valley a lot.

Tsukihime Remake

Eh, I'd say only Vlov has a principle that's similar to the Crystal Valley in any way and even then it doesn't terraform the planet, it just drains heat from the surroundings (hence why Arc is able to use her backup without issue against him when she wouldn't be able to do so in the Crystal Valley).

Zelretch is much weaker in the present than he was 1700 years ago.

Given the new lore about dead apostles it's unlikely this is still the case.

And anyway, CM doesn't need to be a planet buster to beat Karna, Gilgamesh and Artoria.

Yeah but if CM isn't a planet buster then that implies his moon drop doesn't have the same size and weight as the moon, therefore it's strength is unknown. Aside from that, we have no evidence of CM being anywhere near the continent busting level of other TYPEs, as his next best attacks are only around the kilometer range (which is consistent with how ORT is portrayed as a larger threat).

[Kubera]

2. A random meteor? Shinjuku's Meteor was going to destroy the entire Singularity and that was by Moriarty's design and the second was Wodime's Animus Animusphere which is straight up equal to Lostbelt Artemis' main cannon in power.

For the 2nd meteor I meant the one in LB3, which shouldn't have been particularly big since QHS only wanted to destroy a village and not bring disaster to his kingdom. That meteor was still powerful enough to exhaust Spartacus' NP and kill him. And for Shinjuku it was the Bennu asteroid which is like 500 meters in diameters, which makes sense since it's a small singularity.

3. That was Femme Fatale Tiamat... the Tiamat that completely restrains herself to the point that's all she can manage to do... at this point, we are going to start downgrading the Primordial Sea despite how much that's frequently talked about just to make TYPEs that much stronger.

Not arguing about TYPES vs full power Tiamat. Just that when talking about that form it was still considered noteworthy to bring up how she had nuclear bombs level of power.

4. Surtr DID raze the Planet, that was the reason why Skadi had to cover it in snow in the first place... and Surtr razing it was a FAILED attempt to burn it straight to ash.

Yes, but originally he was only supposed to burn the Scandinavian texture and that was already impressive and not something any God could do since well, Surtr was specifically created for that.

Again, my argument is not that TYPEs cannot have gotten buffed or got stronger just like everything else did in the Nasuverse(Nasu even made Tsukihime Remake to buff both settings up entirely), but trying to use Notes when Notes actually goes against TYPEs being way beyond anything we've seen because not all TYPEs are equal(some even "died" or was defeated by enhanced Humans/A-Rays barely doing much in comparison to how hard it takes to even defeat say Surtr or God Arjuna) but then believe that somehow everything else we've seen still only scales to "Atomic Blasts" when reading the text really goes against that.

Not saying that everything in FGO scales to atomic blasts. Just that servants being in the wiping off cities/mountains range is overall fairly consistent across the franchise, so the feats in Notes look damn impressive in comparison. Arguing TYPES vs top tier Fate guys like Arjuna Alter or Zeus is another matter entirely and probably impossible to tell until we get more from stuff from TYPES, but these guys are also far above the strongest servants.

And sure, Ultimate Ones aren't created equal, but let's not pretend like they aren't all intented to be extinction level disasters. They're often brought up together for a reason.

Like, imagine if Crimson Moon awakens in a Fate world, I seriously doubt Nasu would have it killed by Lancer Karna or something. He'd go all the way and make him an FGO style boss.

why not? i mean the fact that earth defeated sefar proves it's not exactly the average planet

It barely defeated Sefar, and only after all its gods included alien ones got their ass kicked. And Excalibur is possibly its strongest weapon by far anyway, and only even worked because it ignores Sefar's hax which we don't know how many planets actually could or had the chance to find out how to confront her.

[Mementore]

For the RM stuff, what I'm saying is that nowhere it's stated that CM has a RM and not an ability like ORT's.

Given the new lore about dead apostles it's unlikely this is still the case.

Zelretch is still an old man in Strange Fake and that has always been the reason he was weaker.

Aside from that, we have no evidence of CM being anywhere near the continent busting level of other TYPEs, as his next best attacks are only around the kilometer range (which is consistent with how ORT is portrayed as a larger threat).

Aside from that we know that CM is at the very least as strong as Archetypes Earth, who is the strongest being on Earth.

Strange Fake Vol.7

And that normal DAAs are considered as strong as Gods like Ishtar

[Dartz]

I think always one-upping her opponent is just a function of her backup from the planet, which is something entirely seperate from her normal strength and not just a matter of how much mana reserves she has, since her backup is said to boost her "Life Scale" above what it normally is and is distinct from her profile's parameters.

Ok, but what's good about her is that she is able to match her parameters and restrain herself when needed. Like Ciel said, a TA who doesn't restrain themself is no different from a DA. Imagine if she were walking around with Beast level strength 24/7, that would be terribly inefficient.

Doubt it. I'm pretty sure the entire reason why CM made true ancestors to reincarnate into in the first place is because he wasn't a part of the Earth. Marble Phantasm is an ability unique to beings such as True Ancestors that are so close to the Earth they can practically freely manipulate it. While it's possible that on the moon he might have his own MP equivalent due to having authority over it, theres no way he has MP on Earth.

The details are kind of nebulous. It's not entirely certain if CM already managed to make himself part of the system of Earth before being killed. It's up to interpretation really.

Brunestud doesn't manifest his castle with MP, his castle is his reality marble (other true ancestors don't have the RM so they can only manifest it with MP).

You read that on the wiki, but I encourage you to check the original citation the entry is based on (very important!). The entry from Tsukihime Dokuhon Plusperiod explicitly tells you the Millenium Castle was originally manifested by the most powerful True Ancestor using Marble Phantasm.

Mirror Image doesn't neccessarily mean 1:1 identical, it could also denote resemblance

Haha, lol no. Mirror image means it's as strong as the actual thing if not stronger, since it requires equal or greater mystery to be overcome. The definition of mirror image is the same as Sabaniya's heart, in fact the kanji is the same. Where it creates a clump so similar it resonates with the original one. Same idea, but no vudu magic involved.

Especially considering how being able to drop the actual moon would put him on a much higher level than every other TYPE, who can only destroy parts of continents despite being all but confirmed to be more powerful than CM.

Hmm, no. Nasu stated long ago when he was talking about the name of the company, that he named it after a character meant to appear in Notes who was supposed to be the second to last boss. If that's any indication that means Crimson Moon is only second to the final boss and secret boss. Nasu really likes his RPG analogies after all!

Looked up what I think you were talking about. If I'm not wrong, it seems like all Arc did was break a barrier that had the same durability as the entire Strasbourg cathedral in one blow, which while impressive still doesn't seem on the level of Quetz's strength feat.

Haha, don't even try to downplay it little fella. It's based on that as a concept but Ciel actually brings the fact it's an space 30km in size along with how big and heavy it is as the greatest factor in how difficult it is to destroy it. Ciel can also manipulate it to some degree and was able to massively compress it, which made it super dense, as she stated.

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[SPOILER=Tsukihime Remake]Given the new lore about dead apostles it's unlikely this is still the case.

Zelretch probably doesn't drink human blood like other DAs and is likely surviving through different means. It's very likely he is weakened. Especially when young Zelretch is stated to be Prime!Zelretch

[Hyug]

Also ORT and Primate Murder are said to be on a league of their own in a group that includes CM.

That's circular logic. You are saying Brunestud can't be a continent buster because because he is weaker than other Types and the reason he is weaker than other Types is because he has no continent blasting feat...
Also given CM is dead it's normal for ORT and PM ro be superior in the present.
Also CM is called the final boss while ORT is the secret one which is an indication that CM > non ORT Types
And the fact that Zeus need all the Olympians powers combined to equal Excalibur which is powered by the planet makes me think that Types should easily exceed that.

[Gehennahem]

For the 2nd meteor I meant the one in LB3, which shouldn't have been particularly big since QHS only wanted to destroy a village and not bring disaster to his kingdom. That meteor was still powerful enough to exhaust Spartacus' NP and kill him. And for Shinjuku it was the Bennu asteroid which is like 500 meters in diameters, which makes sense since it's a small singularity.

That's more similar to the DBZ problem to be honest than anything else. Also, that Meteor was NOT small in the slightest and it actually came from his payload which means it was packed with alot of Mana and Mystery at that, it should do alot of damage for it's radius by comparison.

Not arguing about TYPES vs full power Tiamat. Just that when talking about that form it was still considered noteworthy to bring up how she had nuclear bombs level of power.

More because Tiamat was very, very obviously restricting herself than anything else. It's why the characters had to kill her despite not really doing anything until that point.

Yes, but originally he was only supposed to burn the Scandinavian texture and that was already impressive and not something any God could do since well, Surtr was specifically created for that.

And that was due to Laeventienn which is equal to Rhongomyniad in scope and power as stated in the Lostbelt itself. Surtr eating Fenrir and plugging Muspelheim into the missing Sun was just supreme overkill to pull a Sefar and change.

Not saying that everything in FGO scales to atomic blasts. Just that servants being in the wiping off cities/mountains range is overall fairly consistent across the franchise, so the feats in Notes look damn impressive in comparison. Arguing TYPES vs top tier Fate guys like Arjuna Alter or Zeus is another matter entirely and probably impossible to tell until we get more from stuff from TYPES, but these guys are also far above the strongest servants.

To be fair, I actually DO agree with that wholesale in that how most things happened in the series is primarily endangering cities/Mountains/Mountain Ranges and not much else unless you read the other materials or other adaptations. Like Fergus destroying Laputa, a big ass Island which would have been a massive calamity if it fell is a huge one that alot of people miss(While the game have it take a real long time, primarily due to it seeming like Kid Fergus had issues stabilizing himself and more trying to kill Phenex, the Agartha Manga had it be extremely quick and basically just destroy both the Island and Phenex in a simple usage) or in Turas Realta America, he was going to completely destroy the United States Singularity with Caladbolg if Hektor didn't stop him.
Stuff like this is easy to miss almost as much as the Mud of the Holy Grail/Primordial Sea business.

And my point with the TYPEs and God Arjuna/Lostbelt Zeus was just pointing out we cannot say that TYPEs must be unfathomably above anyone we know for precisely that reason, same with Sefar to be frank(considering Velber would had have to be doing this to ALOT of Planets and should have ran into alot of Ultimate Ones by proxy).

And sure, Ultimate Ones aren't created equal, but let's not pretend like they aren't all intented to be extinction level disasters. They're often brought up together for a reason.

Like, imagine if Crimson Moon awakens in a Fate world, I seriously doubt Nasu would have it killed by Lancer Karna or something. He'd go all the way and make him an FGO style boss.

To be fair, I never said they wasn't extinction level disasters but let's be real, so are a good number of Servants left to their own devices or even Angra Mainyu without a Grail. The issue is that Nasu and other writers usually stick to one end and rarely clarify things without you having to put those pieces together entirely(like with the Grail Mud/Primordial Sea connection. You have no idea how many times people believe it's just some random substance that isn't insanely durable when even F/SN had Archer not even being able to destroy it but just disperse it and especially in FGO where Romani goes on a tear for how impossible it is for anyone to just be able to destroy it). This usually makes it DAMN hard for people to take it seriously because "If it's not said outright or shown, it doesn't exist" like with Lostbelt Artemis' main cannon being described as a Planet Killer, made to destroy Interstellar Battleships, many characters and even the narration agrees with the stance... but it only destroys Islands means that's what it can do despite everything else disagreeing with that stance. Hell, I fully believe Nasu wanted TYPEs to be even STRONGER in Notes but didn't really bother so we just get "Continent destroying Death Screams" when Archetype Earth can play Pinball with Continents not even trying since some Melty Blood games.

It barely defeated Sefar, and only after all its gods included alien ones got their ass kicked. And Excalibur is possibly its strongest weapon by far anyway, and only even worked because it ignores Sefar's hax which we don't know how many planets actually could or had the chance to find out how to confront her.

You forgot the Olympian Conglomerate actually did stop her in LB5.2(permanently or not) meaning it's very possible if you get the drop on her real quick before she can grow any further(Something Nasu does state the Mecha Gods allowed to happen until she was too strong and even then, Ares gave her such a fight for her life she took his sword as a trophy) so yeah, Excalibur defeated her at the absolute zenith of her power but again, we know from the LB5.5 dialogue it's due to the Planet itself giving energy to Excalibur for the deed like it does for Arcueid and Enkidu.

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That's circular logic. You are saying Brunestud can't be a continent buster because because he is weaker than other Types and the reason he is weaker than other Types is because he has no continent blasting feat...
Also given CM is dead it's normal for ORT and PM ro be superior in the present.
Also CM is called the final boss while ORT is the secret one which is an indication that CM > non ORT Types
And the fact that Zeus need all the Olympians powers combined to equal Excalibur which is powered by the planet makes me think that Types should easily exceed that.

Honestly with Arcueid calling Excalibur her cousin, it would actually be the opposite and say that TYPEs are as strong as Excalibur at full blast or slightly weaker.

[Hyug]

And my point with the TYPEs and God Arjuna/Lostbelt Zeus was just pointing out we cannot say that TYPEs must be unfathomably above anyone we know for precisely that reason, same with Sefar to be frank(considering Velber would had have to be doing this to ALOT of Planets and should have ran into alot of Ultimate Ones by proxy).

The thing is Sefar is only a very small fraction of the full Velber ship that was made to target Earth specifically. So it's impossible to use it to scale it to other Types/defeated alien civilizations.

Honestly with Arcueid calling Excalibur her cousin, it would actually be the opposite and say that TYPEs are as strong as Excalibur at full blast or slightly weaker.

I don't see why Arcueid couldn't ultimately surpass Excalibur with back up and even then if CM is comparable to her as he should that would still put him above the combination of all Olympians which should be above all servants we've seen.

[Clown]

For the RM stuff, what I'm saying is that nowhere it's stated that CM has a RM and not an ability like ORT's.

Even if CMs internal world got retconned away and replaced with principles (very unlikely considering how important the reality marble is to his backstory), principles just straight up don't have the same properties as ORT's Crystal Valley.

Zelretch is still an old man in Strange Fake and that has always been the reason he was weaker.

Age is irrelevant to dead apostles now, Ciel becomes older and Noel becomes younger with no change in capabilities besides the usual when they become dead apostles. On top of that, as a DAA Zelretch now has a principle so if anything he should be stronger than in the past.

Aside from that we know that CM is at the very least as strong as Archetypes Earth, who is the strongest being on Earth.

Archetype Earth is the strongest being of Earth, not on Earth.

Strange Fake Vol.7

And that normal DAAs are considered as strong as Gods like Ishtar.

Strange Fake Vol.7

By Jester, the same guy who mistook Hansa as a member of the Burial Agency, the guys who are supposed to go toe to toe with DAAs. Guess Hansa is Ishtar tier as well. It's pretty obvious Jester isn't the most trustworthy source of information.

Ok, but what's good about her is that she is able to match her parameters and restrain herself when needed. Like Ciel said, a TA who doesn't restrain themself is no different from a DA. Imagine if she were walking around with Beast level strength 24/7, that would be terribly inefficient.

I know, I was just giving evidence that Arc has a "base power" entirely seperate from her backup, and that this "base power" is what is being referred to when it's said Arc is using 70% of her power to restrain her bloodlust.

The details are kind of nebulous. It's not entirely certain if CM already managed to make himself part of the system of Earth before being killed. It's up to interpretation really.

According to Roa, CM has never been a part of Gaia. This makes sense, as CM is literally the furthest thing from a nature spirit of Earth as an alien from the moon. IIRC CM's plan in the first place was to integrate himself into the system of Earth by reincarnating into a True Ancestor which implies he isn't able to do so with his current body.

You read that on the wiki, but I encourage you to check the original citation the entry is based on (very important!). The entry from Tsukihime Dokuhon Plusperiod explicitly tells you the Millenium Castle was originally manifested by the most powerful True Ancestor using Marble Phantasm.

My bad, you're right. CM does still have a reality marble though which is part of his plan to revive himself in a True Ancestor (it's unclarified if its related to the castle). Either way, creating the castle with MP doesn't neccessarily contradict him not having MP on Earth. As I've stated previously, CM should have MP while on the moon so he could've just created the castle there.

Haha, lol no. Mirror image means it's as strong as the actual thing if not stronger, since it requires equal or greater mystery to be overcome. The definition of mirror image is the same as Sabaniya's heart, in fact the kanji is the same. Where it creates a clump so similar it resonates with the original one. Same idea, but no vudu magic involved.

鏡像 is also used for Gradiation Air which explicitly creates inferior copies.

Haha, don't even try to downplay it little fella. It's based on that as a concept but Ciel actually brings the fact it's an space 30km in size along with how big and heavy it is as the greatest factor in how difficult it is to destroy it. Ciel can also manipulate it to some degree and was able to massively compress it, which made it super dense, as she stated.

Yes, it's maximum diameter is 30km, but she can compress it enough to give it the same durability as the Strasbourg Cathedral.

That's circular logic. You are saying Brunestud can't be a continent buster because because he is weaker than other Types and the reason he is weaker than other Types is because he has no continent blasting feat...
Also given CM is dead it's normal for ORT and PM ro be superior in the present.
Also CM is called the final boss while ORT is the secret one which is an indication that CM > non ORT Types
And the fact that Zeus need all the Olympians powers combined to equal Excalibur which is powered by the planet makes me think that Types should easily exceed that.

I never said Brunestud can't be a continent buster because he is weaker than other TYPEs, I'm saying that since CM is confirmed to be weaker than ORT (who itself is confirmed not to be the strongest TYPE to hear Earth's SOS) and PM by WoG, it doesn't make sense for him to have an attack that exceeds by far what everyone else in the entire setting can do. Therefore the moon drop doesn't actually have the same mass as the moon (supported by Arc's moon drop consistently not having the size and destructive power of the moon and an actual moon drop being counterproductive of CM's plans for Earth) and consequently its destructive power is unknown besides it being weaker than the moon. Aside from that attack, CM has nothing that even suggests he is on a planetary/continental level, as all his other attacks are said to be around the kilometer range, so ultimately there's no evidence CM has power even close to the continent busting we've seen from some of the other TYPEs.


Also, CM isn't dead in Tsukihime (in fact, whether CM is "active" is one of the main things that differentiates Tsukihime worlds and Fate worlds). We've even seen him manifest in Arc from time to time. Also, since CM here isn't on the moon or facing something that originates from the moon he wouldn't be getting backup from the moon. Without backup, he has no way of equaling the top tiers of the Nasuverse.

[Menwearpink]

I mean he's not really dead in either tbh.

[Dartz]

According to Roa, CM has never been a part of Gaia. This makes sense, as CM is literally the furthest thing from a nature spirit of Earth as an alien from the moon.

Hmm, no, he's never said that. He said CM had a "world-corrosive will", which if anything that means he had the means to become part of Gaia in some way. However, the details and the process are not elaborated, we can only infer it.

My bad, you're right. CM does still have a reality marble though which is part of his plan to revive himself in a True Ancestor (it's unclarified if its related to the castle).

Yeah, CM had a reality marble, and it's related to being able to reincarnate in TAs, that's the only context a RM is used when it comes to him.

Either way, creating the castle with MP doesn't neccessarily contradict him not having MP on Earth. As I've stated previously, CM should have MP while on the moon so he could've just created the castle there

MP is an ability of earth's elementals dude. You can't just say CM has MP but it's limited to the moon because then it's not MP but something else.

鏡像 is also used for Gradiation Air which explicitly creates inferior copies.

Post the pertinent paragraphs. First time I heard of it.
Doesn't matter though. Arc in Melty created the world from 1000 years in the future including the red moon from that time. We know because Dust of Osiris extracted that same world and kept it in a world egg and planned to use it to switch it with the real world so she could end humanity.
If Classic!Arc's MP at 30% power is already on a planetary scale we have no reason to believe CM's isn't.

Yes, it's maximum diameter is 30km, but she can compress it enough to give it the same durability as the Strasbourg Cathedral.

The 硬度 (hardness) and 質量 (texture) of the light is the same as Strasbourg Cathedral, but it becomes way denser when compressed, that's what makes it impressive. Nvm the fact Idea Blood are shown to be around city level in scope, and this same cathedral was capable of containing Vlob's curse which is able to freeze an entire city to absolute zero.
Otherwise we're to believe a serious slightly unhigned Arc is wall level, and surely you realize how retarded that is (at least I hope so!).

[Clown]

Hmm, no, he's never said that. He said CM had a "world-corrosive will", which if anything that means he had the means to become part of Gaia in some way. However, the details and the process are not elaborated, we can only infer it.

"World-corrosive will" is so vague it could literally mean any number of things. It could be referring to how he can weaken the human order somehow, or perhaps it could refer to some sort of prototype of the remake's principles which are said to "paint over a planet's physical laws". Not sufficient evidence to conclude he somehow acquired MP on Earth despite being the furthest thing from the Earth's nature spirit. Roa states the planet was targeting Crimson Moon because it wasn't a part of Gaia or Alaya, so there's no way that same planet would be providing Crimson Moon the energy to activate marble phantasm.

MP is an ability of earth's elementals dude. You can't just say CM has MP but it's limited to the moon because then it's not MP but something else.

I disagree, MP is described as an ability possessed by nature spirits that are the planet's sense of touch, and nowhere does it state this is limited to only Earth's nature spirits. I see no reason why CM as the embodiment of the moon wouldn't be capable of doing the same thing on the moon.

Post the pertinent paragraphs. First time I heard of it.

投影【魔術】
グラーシヨン・エア。
オリジナルの鏡像を魔力で物質化する魔術。
本編で凜が語っていたように、まつこと効率が悪い。
投影でオリジナルからレプリカを作るのなら、ちゃんとした材料からレプリカを作った方が手軽で実用に耐える 為だ。
本来、投影は既に失われたオリジナルを、本当に数 分間だけ自分の時間軸に映し出して代用する魔術。
わずか数分間の、外見だけのレンタルな訳であるから、士郎・アーチャーの投影がどれだけデタラ メかは 言うまでもない。凜が士郎の土蔵を覗き見て殺意を覚えたのも当然。
もっとも、士郎が投影できるのは武器関係のみ。それも剣に限定された武装で、近代兵器は投影さ え出来なし。
盾や鎧はかろうじて引き出せるが、効果は瞬間的なものであり、その代償は大きい。

Doesn't matter though. Arc in Melty created the world from 1000 years in the future including the red moon from that time. We know because Dust of Osiris extracted that same world and kept it in a world egg and planned to use it to switch it with the real world so she could end humanity.
If Classic!Arc's MP at 30% power is already on a planetary scale we have no reason to believe CM's isn't.

Literally everyone with a reality marble or marble phantasm can "create a world", that doesn't make them planetary scale. Bringing the world from 1000 years into the future into a localized area through marble phantasm and dropping a mirror image of the moon on someone are two entirely different things. Not to mention CM wouldn't have the backup or MP that Arc uses in this case at all.

The 硬度 (hardness) and 質量 (texture) of the light is the same as Strasbourg Cathedral, but it becomes way denser when compressed, that's what makes it impressive. Nvm the fact Idea Blood are shown to be around city level in scope, and this same cathedral was capable of containing Vlob's curse which is able to freeze an entire city to absolute zero.
Otherwise we're to believe a serious slightly unhigned Arc is wall level, and surely you realize how retarded that is (at least I hope so!).

Unrelated, but Vlov's idea blood can't freeze an entire city to absolute zero, it only approaches those temperatures precisely because Ciel was containing Vlov's entire idea blood to an extremely small area. Also, being able to destroy the entire Strasbourg Cathedral in one blow would put her around building level, which matches up with how Arc could destroy the entire school Shiki was hiding in near the end of the Ciel route once she started getting serious.