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Thread: Badass Versus Thread

  1. #124181
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    It was just a metaphor to rate her top tier in a hypothetical gacha that didn't have waifu/popularity bias.
    I figure it was clear enough.

    Anyways.
    Ibaraki vs Bedivere

    Battle of the weird right arms.
    Without explaining what the standards are beyond all Sabers. Like Altaris pointed out, there are quite a few Sabers who can be said to be above Mordred, which wouldn't exactly make her a 5 star (since in this hypothetical it would be for top dogs by powa not waifus). Aka not that meaningul in the end.

    What can Bedi do vs Ibaraki anyway? Seems like he gets outgunned quite a bit.

  2. #124182
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    I mean you made a statement by rating Mordred using FGO's Rarity values, without explaining why this should be taken seriously (proper context). Hard to understand what a 5 star Saber is when there are quite a lot of good Sabers.
    That’s not true. I explicitly noted this was in using the rating scale of 1 to 5 star, so she is quite a strong servant over all, but not in the sense of weighting it for marketability. As a result of this, references to five stars in fate go therefor were entirely irrelevant and immaterial.

    further, this is not in reference to servants when including all classes. The point of the secondary material is that mordred is in the higher percentile when it comes to saber class servants. If there are quite a bit of strong sabers, which you correctly note, and mordred is better then 80% (ish) of saber class servants, that argues for her abilities.

    also, on ibaraki, why do I feel like hearing she is much, much stronger then she presents in fate go. Like an actual top tier berserker but she is just to busy screwing around to fight seriously. (This is just something from kota’s book so don’t take it to seriously.)
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  3. #124183
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Ι know Ibaraki usually gets treated as a joke wherever she appears, but she IS one of the Two Great Oni of Mount Ooe, you know. She outstats Bedivere quite handily.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Asunder's Avatar
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    The only stat that Iba has greater than Bedivere is end. Bedi was the weakest KOTR but that was before he got excalibur arm that boosts his stats & sword attacks plus gives an A+ anti-army np. Mats mention that Ibaraki is pretty good at commanding other oni and guerrilla warfare but that doesn't really apply to a straight versus.
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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors DTTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    . The point of the secondary material is that mordred is in the higher percentile when it comes to saber class servants.
    Pretty sure this was never stated. The only thing her mats mention in terms of the Class is that she has "the power worthy of the Saber Class" and that was it.

  6. #124186
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Unless it was retranslated the quote was more like “she isn’t as strong as her sire, but she is a strong example of a saber class servant.”

    im getting that a bit wrong I’m sure, but essentially even when compared to other sabers she ranks into the upper echelons, was the gist of it.
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  7. #124187
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Qin Shi Huang versus Ultimate One Kars (JJBA).

  8. #124188
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    That’s not true. I explicitly noted this was in using the rating scale of 1 to 5 star, so she is quite a strong servant over all, but not in the sense of weighting it for marketability. As a result of this, references to five stars in fate go therefor were entirely irrelevant and immaterial.

    further, this is not in reference to servants when including all classes. The point of the secondary material is that mordred is in the higher percentile when it comes to saber class servants. If there are quite a bit of strong sabers, which you correctly note, and mordred is better then 80% (ish) of saber class servants, that argues for her abilities.

    also, on ibaraki, why do I feel like hearing she is much, much stronger then she presents in fate go. Like an actual top tier berserker but she is just to busy screwing around to fight seriously. (This is just something from kota’s book so don’t take it to seriously.)
    Higher percentile of Sabers =/= being a 5 star in this theoretical ranking. Especially when you can't clarify who she's above and below other than saying she's one of the best. Being one of the stronger Sabers doesn't mean she's that far above the average to be a 5 star. So still, not that much of a meaningful comparison as opposed to her matching Siegfried a bit and similar statements.

  9. #124189
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    Mordred's weaker than Artoria, Lancelot, Gawain and Siegfried, you can trickle this down to a number of others: Rama, Altera, Sigurd and Altera. If we're going feats, Charles, Fergus, Suzuka and Richard have more than a good shot. I wouldn't put her in the top brackets of Sabers. She's just above average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoydGolden View Post
    Qin Shi Huang versus Ultimate One Kars (JJBA).
    I'd give it to Kars, unless QSH can figure out to just throw into space.

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    I mean you keep saying X and Y is better but what makes them actually better than they’re better. Look at their noble Phantasms, their stats, their skills. Some of them are better overall or in certain circumstances but I don’t see how armored Battle Con Prana Bursting Knight of the Realm with a holy sword level beam is out of their category.

  13. #124193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    I mean you keep saying X and Y is better but what makes them actually better than they’re better. Look at their noble Phantasms, their stats, their skills. Some of them are better overall or in certain circumstances but I don’t see how armored Battle Con Prana Bursting Knight of the Realm with a holy sword level beam is out of their category.
    Stats are probably some of the worst ways to go about judging a servant's level because author's treat them differently. Even Nasu admitted he has other, undisclosed ways of ranking heroes asides parameters. Why the Sabers listed are stronger?

    Artoria, Lancelot, Gawain and Siegfried,
    All of these are proven. Mordred's called Artoria-lite. Lancelot is called the strongest of the KotRT at some points or another. Gawain is a similar contender, who has even been said equal to Arthur. Mordred flat out admits that Sieg after two more transformations would be stronger than her, with the only thing he lacked being experience. Sieg never becomes as strong as Siegfried so this is rather obvious.

    The others mentioned either scale to the above (Altera for example is compared favorably to Artoria and overkill on the moon cell) or have really powerful skills. There's only so much Mordred can do with prana burst and a somewhat above average beamsword when you reach the tops.

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    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asunder View Post
    The only stat that Iba has greater than Bedivere is end. Bedi was the weakest KOTR but that was before he got excalibur arm that boosts his stats & sword attacks plus gives an A+ anti-army np. Mats mention that Ibaraki is pretty good at commanding other oni and guerrilla warfare but that doesn't really apply to a straight versus.
    Bedi's stats include his swordarm buffs, Ibaraki's dont take into account her Demonic Strength of the Oni skill.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Asunder View Post
    The only stat that Iba has greater than Bedivere is end. Bedi was the weakest KOTR but that was before he got excalibur arm that boosts his stats & sword attacks plus gives an A+ anti-army np. Mats mention that Ibaraki is pretty good at commanding other oni and guerrilla warfare but that doesn't really apply to a straight versus.
    Bedi's stats include his swordarm buffs, Ibaraki's dont take into account her Demonic Strength of the Oni skill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    It was just a metaphor to rate her top tier in a hypothetical gacha that didn't have waifu/popularity bias.
    I figure it was clear enough.
    Yeah, "even in a gacha not weighted towards waifus" made his meaning pretty explicit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, between Bedivere and Ibaraki, Bedivere is the better character.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, you meant in battle? Then yeah, Ibaraki takes it.
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  16. #124196
    Gacha is evil, it can never be trusted as anything reliable

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    Horseman War of Apocalypse Wandering Swordwoman's Avatar
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    Summer Martha vs Raikou
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    All I can picture in that fight is poor Tarrasque either getting pummeled by the owner or skewered by Mystic Slayer skill.

    It depends on how well Martha's martial arts is if Tarrasque got taken out.

  19. #124199
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Raikou takes it easily, imo. Martha isn't really supposed to be a fighter, memes aside. And Jacob'd Limbs is optimised to fight demons and angels, not people (even half-oni people).
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  20. #124200
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    I dunno if Raikou can take a dragon.
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