Badass Versus Thread

[SpoonyViking]

And Araya then goes "are you sure? that thing can totally kill me".

*Can* defeat him isn't the same as *will* defeat him. From the way Touko acts, it seems more like while there's a chance she might defeat him, the odds are low enough she thinks it would be better to rely on Shiki.

And she shows a lot of stuff in Case Files actually. High capability combat puppets (on a level beyond other puppeters), runes that write other runes, the box monster is now also inside her (to specifically avoid the Araya situation again), a magical dragonfly transformer cannon, her multi-layered Mystic Eye, multiple 3D proyector cat monsters all at once...

Wow, they gave her lots of new toys in CF! Did her runes also get boosted? In KnK, they couldn't even defeat a zombie.

[TwilightsCall]

Seeing as in Case Files we are told she single-handedly saved the entire field of Rune Magecraft from collapse, I'm going to presume they did.

Though her showing of Runes in KnK was pretty pathetic, it's not really hard to outdo that.

[You]

Seeing as in Case Files we are told she single-handedly saved the entire field of Rune Magecraft from collapse, I'm going to presume they did.

Isn't that elaboration in the stuff she did before Knk?

"It's a good opportunity, so just let me talk a little longer.
... It was difficult for a girl not yet twenty to study abroad, especially since an Aozaki gets treated like a heretic. In order to enter that place I decided to specialise in rune sorcery. At the time rune wasn't popular, and there were few people studying it. The association side needed a researcher too, so stabilising the rune characters from that side took me 2 years, and another few years to approach the originals in the Tule association, so it may have been about the time I just got my own workroom.
One day, while I was absorbed in making the doll that was my goal, I met that man. Someone who possessed a unique personal history, like originally being a Tamil priest. He was a hellish man. His strong will and tempered shell, it was like an eternally burning drive for achievement.

"You... were always like that."
That mutter was something that flowed out because he couldn't take it any longer.
"Yes. You were always like that. You always underestimated me like that. I specialized in Rune before you. I was also the one who was famed as a dollmaker, I alone. But those feeble-minded idiots were fooled by that attitude of yours. Your condescending attitude, it gave them the impression that I was inferior to you. It's obvious if you think about it! I'm the director of Suponheim, aren't I? I have spent over forty years as a mage. So why was it that I had to be below a little girl who had just entered her twenties...?!"
His muttering, growing steadily louder, now filled the lobby.

[TwilightsCall]

That was my presumption, but I didn't read the KnK novels so Case Files was the first time I came across it.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Sooo... what's the conclusion here? The only Zouken we know is the one who use Servants corpse and summon Assassin from Assassin and constantly become bugs and eat people

- - - Updated - - -

it's not like servants are all made equal anyway
beating a berserker with no magic resistance vs beating someone smart with A-rank magic resistance has to be pretty different for a magus

True, Zouken beating Hans and Shakespeare in "good" condition doesn't sound that impressive

[You]

As Zouken's a failed shounen protag Shakes is either his greatest enemy or Zouken's got so many worms for brains that he's a hard counter.

[AAM1232]

Lobo vs Jeanne Alter and Demon King Nobunaga

[Zork Knight]

Big invisible high-speed truck with teeth goes chomp

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

Big invisible high-speed truck with teeth goes chomp

Pretty sure Lobo is mystery based, so he turns into the worlds' biggest hotdog.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

all servants are mystery based, but nobu's fire isn't very effective against more modern servants. lobo is from the late 1800's.
the lobo part can't be very high on mystery though since we know everything there is to know about him
the headless horseman part (which never does anything) is probably stronger in the mystery department.
does the invisible man part even do anything? or is it a joke about him being invisible?
nobu does seem to have the advantage here because of the gunfire, but if she lets her guard down she might get surprised because avengers get boosted from pain and anger, so for a short while the fire (if actually effective) will just make lobo stronger.

i don't really know much about jeanne alter's abilities though so i'll leave that for someone else. i can't imagine she would work well with nobu.

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

all servants are mystery based, but nobu's fire isn't very effective against more modern servants. lobo is from the late 1800's.
the lobo part can't be very high on mystery though since we know everything there is to know about him
the headless horseman part (which never does anything) is probably stronger in the mystery department.
does the invisible man part even do anything? or is it a joke about him being invisible?
nobu does seem to have the advantage here because of the gunfire, but if she lets her guard down she might get surprised because avengers get boosted from pain and anger, so for a short while the fire (if actually effective) will just make lobo stronger.

i don't really know much about jeanne alter's abilities though so i'll leave that for someone else. i can't imagine she would work well with nobu.

But he either doesn't truly exist, or he was made a demonic being through stories(forgot which one). I would assume a demonic nature qualifies as high mystery. He's either innately high-mystery, or imitating something of high mystery.

The headless horseman is a sort of amplifier for Lobo. Taking him out would make him significantly weaker. If it happens anyway.

Jalter lost to Lobo, though I vaguely remember something like an amp for Lobo. I might be imaging it, so I'll have to check. Who knows what happens if she risks death to imitate La Pucelle.

[Zork Knight]

Invisible man lets Lobo and Hessian turn invisible

Hessian is early 1800s, Lobo and Invisible Man are late 1800s. So unless the Hessian -> Dullahan is really strong in this one, Nobu's anti-elderly boost means jack shit.

[Wandering Swordwoman]

But he either doesn't truly exist, or he was made a demonic being through stories(forgot which one). I would assume a demonic nature qualifies as high mystery. He's either innately high-mystery, or imitating something of high mystery.

The headless horseman is a sort of amplifier for Lobo. Taking him out would make him significantly weaker. If it happens anyway.

Jalter lost to Lobo, though I vaguely remember something like an amp for Lobo. I might be imaging it, so I'll have to check. Who knows what happens if she risks death to imitate La Pucelle.

Her stakes can't even hold Lobo for long let alone kill them.
The problem with JAlter is that she has the firepower but still suck because she is like an amateur at using it

[I Can't Believe It's Not A NoblePhantasm]

Invisible man lets Lobo and Hessian turn invisible

Hessian is early 1800s, Lobo and Invisible Man are late 1800s. So unless the Hessian -> Dullahan is really strong in this one, Nobu's anti-elderly boost means jack shit.

Upon review, invisible man somehow also amped his base abilities, or being an avenger did so as well for some reason. He's explicitly called stronger. Regardless.......this is the version we're talking about.

Well Nobu is anti-mystery, not anti-age. It simply coincides with heroic spirit age. Leonidas, for instance, is older than Artoria, but would also have less mystery since there's no supernatural element to his history other than he claims to be a decendant of Herc, which doesn't even manifest as divinity. Lobo and Hessian are mythological in nature. There's nothing authentic about him other than "there was a smart wolf" and "German mercenaries were called Hessian's." He mutated into a fake demonic beast over years. This is basically innocent monster, and it'd be like saying Vlad and Liz could get away with anti-mystery abilities since they're real people that gained supernatural powers because of novels.

Her stakes can't even hold Lobo for long let alone kill them.
The problem with JAlter is that she has the firepower but still suck because she is like an amateur at using it

To her credit she held him off for a while before getting bitten, and then held him back with the flames.

[AAM1232]

Rama vs Ashwatthama

[Rafflesiac]

Gonna bet on Vishnu Bhuja for this one.

[Zork Knight]

Upon review, invisible man somehow also amped his base abilities, or being an avenger did so as well for some reason. He's explicitly called stronger. Regardless.......this is the version we're talking about.

Well Nobu is anti-mystery, not anti-age. It simply coincides with heroic spirit age. Leonidas, for instance, is older than Artoria, but would also have less mystery since there's no supernatural element to his history other than he claims to be a decendant of Herc, which doesn't even manifest as divinity. Lobo and Hessian are mythological in nature. There's nothing authentic about him other than "there was a smart wolf" and "German mercenaries were called Hessian's." He mutated into a fake demonic beast over years. This is basically innocent monster, and it'd be like saying Vlad and Liz could get away with anti-mystery abilities since they're real people that gained supernatural powers because of novels.

I wouldn't expect 19th century urban legends to be overflowing with the magic stuff, which has been on decline since... 0 A.D.? 700 B.C.? 2500? 12000? 14000? But to each their own I guess.

Maybe if Lobo were more than just a really big wolf, I'd buy it.

[Lily Emilio]

Idk why you guys are talking about Nobu's anti mystery when the versus is about Demon King Nobu, who is specifically modelled after the demon king part of the myths. In other words, this form is more about anti-divine. Despite the NP description claiming that she is one who burns all mystery, her entire kit and the NP are all about anti-divine. It's pretty obvious that the anti-mystery aspect of hers is more geared towards divinity in this form.

Also this Nobu is very unstable and constantly burning her own body. That's a bad match up against an enemy who is extremely fast, can go invisible and known for its survival abilities. All of her arsenal, even if you assume it will do bonus damage to Lobo, would mean nothing if she cannot hit him at all (just look at how Kagetora was completely unfazed fighting her, despite being a divine spirit and standing inside Nobu's RM). And looking at her agility compare to him, I don't think she can last long. He can just go around being invisible and she probably burns herself to death after some time.

[Zork Knight]

Idk why you guys are talking about Nobu's anti mystery when the versus is about Demon King Nobu, who is specifically modelled after the demon king part of the myths. In other words, this form is more about anti-divine. Despite the NP description claiming that she is one who burns all mystery, her entire kit and the NP are all about anti-divine. It's pretty obvious that the anti-mystery aspect of hers is more geared towards divinity in this form.

To be fair, original Nobu's Anti-Mystery also manifested in gameplay as "extra damage to Divinity"

[fire_mountain_30]

Majin Okita VS Summer BB