For someone not interested in debating it you sure seem interested in debating it.
For someone not interested in debating it you sure seem interested in debating it.
you are right i mean about the current discusion comparing them with other characters but i should have said it better, but am i curious why people consider them that strong when there is nothing indicating that. altought maybe i should ask in the question threadOriginally Posted by Petrikow
Last edited by Light; August 11th, 2022 at 12:06 PM.
Types aren't considered strong because of their feats in Notes, but because they are the strongest beings of each planet.
It wouldn't really make sense if on Earth alone there were 50 beings on the level of the strongest being of another planet.
See that makes more sense because that is ridiculous, but then they also don't consider things like velber near them even though they are alien and literally reap multiple planets or chaos and his humongous size
Last edited by Light; August 11th, 2022 at 01:27 PM.
Gawain outright stated that King Hassan rivaled The Lion King at the height of her power and he's been with her for 6 months now AND took a good bit of her power to the chest. I think he can say that considering the latter became a Divine Spirit in every way.
Again I feel like we are walking around each other at this point and you are looking for other things to disprove it which doesn't even work in your favor.
1. I am not arguing that TYPEs haven't gotten a powerboost, but it's ridiculous to pretend nothing else got a powerboost to go well past where TYPEs was primarily stated in Notes. You use Fafnir as an example that ONLY a handful of Servants would comfortably surpass it... except Fafnir is an exceptional Dragon just like Charlemagne is exceptional for a Servant which would mean Fafnir is stronger than the average Dragon which wouldn't help your point.
2. A random meteor? Shinjuku's Meteor was going to destroy the entire Singularity and that was by Moriarty's design and the second was Wodime's Animus Animusphere which is straight up equal to Lostbelt Artemis' main cannon in power.
3. That was Femme Fatale Tiamat... the Tiamat that completely restrains herself to the point that's all she can manage to do... at this point, we are going to start downgrading the Primordial Sea despite how much that's frequently talked about just to make TYPEs that much stronger.
4. Surtr DID raze the Planet, that was the reason why Skadi had to cover it in snow in the first place... and Surtr razing it was a FAILED attempt to burn it straight to ash.
Again, my argument is not that TYPEs cannot have gotten buffed or got stronger just like everything else did in the Nasuverse(Nasu even made Tsukihime Remake to buff both settings up entirely), but trying to use Notes when Notes actually goes against TYPEs being way beyond anything we've seen because not all TYPEs are equal(some even "died" or was defeated by enhanced Humans/A-Rays barely doing much in comparison to how hard it takes to even defeat say Surtr or God Arjuna) but then believe that somehow everything else we've seen still only scales to "Atomic Blasts" when reading the text really goes against that.
I'm not even saying TYPEs are weak, I'm saying we have nothing to prove that they are all super strong and beyond anyone else to deal with. Earth doesn't even HAVE a True TYPE and technically, we have no idea of how strong any other Celestial Object outside of Earth past ORT and JUST ORT(who was basically all but stated to doom Humanity in Strange Fake if woken up early and the AG seen as a better vessel compared to it's damaged one in F/GO) and we shouldn't pretend ORT is the standard for all TYPEs until that is stated and how that works.
The entire Singularity... of a single district in Tokyo.
To be fair, Singularities also have space and somehow still has the Earth in them(which is why Moriarity's plan wouldn't have worked anyway and why you can still doom the Planet in other ways as they stated in that Singularity like with Edison or The Lion King).
Just gameplay wise, it only shows those places because they are important.
So the statement is pointless?
why not? i mean the fact that earth defeated sefar proves it's not exactly the average planet
being the strongest on your planet might as well be the equivalent to saying you're the best hockey player in your neighborhood. that's cool and all but maybe the next neighborhood over is full of NHL pros. your title doesn't exactly mean much
Not exactly, just pointless in the fact that circumventing Earth's protection for anyone who is born on it(like it is for anyone on the Planet they are born on) is practically impossible.
Singularities apparently DO contain Earth, Space, The Sun and other things... it's kinda like the Storm Walls/Lostbelts due to how we had to get stop Edison and The Lion King's plans or otherwise they would still completely ruin the Planet in their own way if left to their own devices.
Look, if Nasu is still mentioning Ultimate Ones in fgo, it's probably because they are still powerful enough to be relevant.
And anyway, Sefar was defeated thanks to the Earth itself.
Eh, the FGO profiles imply she's at 30% of her full strength because of bloodlust so it doesn't seem like her base power without backup has been nerfed beyond the usual.
I feel like saying one TYPE destroyed a continent therefore Brunestud should be around that level is a faulty line of logic because it assumes all TYPEs are around the same ballpark even though what we've been shown so far seems to suggest the opposite. Brunestud, for one, never destroyed even a small part of a continent at any point during his time on Earth and some of his most notable attacks are only in the kilometers range. Also, unlike ORT, Brunestud doesn't passively overpower the world and terraform the Earth with his reality marble which also implies he's significantly weaker. Additionally, Zelretch basically confirms all of humanity will go extinct if ORT wakes up early, while Brunestud was defeated by a single human. IMO saying Brunestud is completely beyond servants because he's a TYPE like ORT is like saying Anderson is completely beyond humans because he's a servant like Karna.
Due to Excalibur... which Artoria has and is still seen as powerful even as she's a Servant. Like the Ultimate Ones are obviously very powerful but I feel people are jumping through hoops on how powerful they actually are vs. the little we know of them.
Hell, the only thing I'm still arguing about over this is how it feels people are being selective on both sides when it comes to Servants and then the TYPEs(like how people will now say that due to the Tsukihime Remake, basically everyone is well beyond Servants, Divine Spirits and even some Beasts despite that not even being Nasu's intention or even how he went across it on either series in any of his interviews). It's like people miss that Altera's Photon Ray is still the Prototype of Divine Constructs capable of cutting anything to the point she's utterly surprised she couldn't cut Scathath's Gae Bolg in one strike means she'll get her ass kicked by Tohno now.
That's the only thing I'm stating. Sure, TYPE-Moon/Crimson Moon Brunesturd can very much be stronger than any Servant or even a Grand Servant but the problem is we don't actually know how much that difference is and we can't just use Arcueid as an example given how she works alongside being seen as a candidate for "TYPE-Earth" or Crimson Moon can shrug off a max power Excalibur(Which I do blame Nasu for this as everything is compared to Excalibur despite Excalibur having 2 modes separated by seals which can mean anything and unlike Rhongomyniad comparisons, we have no clue on what they are being compared to to begin with).
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The funny thing about this is that the Tsukihime Remake didn't really change anything we knew of Arcueid previously, just gave her new stuff to work with... but most of that new stuff basically only really works when she's well past 30% and change.
Arcueid still has her major flaw that she cannot +1 hundreds of different weapons at once like Gae Bolg at 30% and Nasu even stated while she can handle one Servant, she may very well have trouble with 2 at once.
Combined with him basically stated Fate's Powercreep is due to how he sees the Universe at this point and there's an obvious change between both series as a whole... but we more or less see those differences be changed now due to Tsukihime taking forever to get changed but all coming at once compared to Fate's slow growth to that same spot.
Like TYPEs are absolute monsters... but I feel there is alot of missing context, not really understanding that just like Ciel getting an Excalibur-tier weapon now and Arcueid gained new tech... so did Servants and to a ridiculous extent. And yeah, it doesn't help that not all TYPEs are created equal as you later stated which means alot.
lol, it's like I'm looking at posts from 2009. Her base power without back up can go as low as being physically weaker than Shiki. She doesn't really have a "base power". It's all about how much mana reserves she has and whether her body is damaged at the moment. Also, she can go way, way beyond being only "a bit" stronger than the opponent depending on her emotions.
??? Falling moon should be around the planet-level range, especially since it was something he did mid fight.
Uh no. I think Dead Apostles in the remake are just stronger than Servants tbf. Biggest overall strength feat in Fate is Quetzalcoatl throwing the axe of Marduk, which compares to some of the strength feats performed by Arc when adjusting to Vlob's strength in Remake. But she is a Divine Spirit and not a Servant.The funny thing about this is that the Tsukihime Remake didn't really change anything we knew of Arcueid previously, just gave her new stuff to work with... but most of that new stuff basically only really works when she's well past 30% and change.
Archer Emiya needed help from two other servants to pull out 3 ton shark out of the water and Katou Danzou bragged that she can lift one tone. Greatest feat for Servant would be Asterios carring a galeon but it was in the water so it wasn't full weight of the ship.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
This is your brain on FGO/servants.
Also even if Arc uses her backup most of the time there are moments where she isn't able to do so (for example, when Shiki cut her connection to the planet in the Ciel route), so I wouldn't say Arc's base stats are entirely meaningless. I also think there's a cap on her backup even when it isn't nerfed because of her Fate/Extra profile stating there are some opponents that her specs are unable to exceed.It should be noted that Fate/Extra is a world where she's gimped by the Moon Cell, and also the planet that gives said support is kind of dead or at least on life support in a death co. While the people she's compared against are super buffed by the virtue of being in a digimon information world.Because of the Moon Cell. Her abilities are gimped.
Anyway, she also notes that her Saint Graph body is frail. And you can't really fault Shiki killing the world against her. Not many are going to be able to kill nature(Let alone that completely) in an area to where she can't draw anything at all and weaken her*.
Dragon Breath is strong but the whole destroys a country comes from this my dude, which isn't it blows up an entire nationI feel like I'm the only one really reading the story because in the Extra CCC Matrix, we already have Dragons being able to throw around Dragon Breath equal to destroying a Country on their own(Which is collaborated on with Fafnir very easily trying to do that in the Mortallis Stella telling of Orleans and Siegfried completely believed he can stop that) and regardless of the damage afterwards, Lostbelt Artemis very clearly can blow right through Planets with her Laser and the only thing capable of stopping her is a Divine Construct of any kind according to Hephaestus.
D&D references and all that. It's wow dragons have high Hit Dice and their breath is boosted by Hit Dice, they can kill massive groups of people and are super strong. A dragon laying waste to a nation isn't that strange with how strong they are. It isn't they kamehameha the united states or australia out of existence at once....According to a certain rulebook, a breath's damage value is equal to the dragon's health value. If you consider health value far surpassing that of humans inflicting damage spread all over an entire army, a single dragon destroying an entire country seems like a reasonable story.
Anyway talking about gods in relation to Arcueid is funny since Gods are very explicitly lower on the pecking order. They're the interns to the CEO when you think about it.
I'd say even if you didn't have the Notes stuff which is far more ridiculous in terms of raw power than anything in any Nasu work actually shown, or the status, spiritual and whatnot that makes TYPEs so much above everyone else you have stuff like ORT-tan being the super secret hard mode boss, and Type Moon having absolutely ridiculous abilities implied via Tatari's existence, having Rainbow level mystic eyes, a super cool cyclone attack and the moon drop as a final trump(?)
Archtype meanwhile has the casual let me just melt all the ice in the world and stop the rotation of the planet because I'm the planet so whatever I say goes. I'm the boss here.
Funky things.
No matter how hard FGO tries it's still playing catch up to old Tsukihime while new Tsukihime seems to be getting more overtly powerful. It is funny.
She does have a "base power" in the same way a servant does. Just because she can become weaker by refusing to use any mana whatsoever (like how Saber can become weaker than Shirou) or through injury doesn't mean she doesn't have a base level of power when under standard conditions.
He isn't throwing the literal moon at the planet, only a conceptual mirror image. It doesn't destroy more than a mountain and its immediate surroundings when used in the Melty Blood manga.
What are Arc's strength feats in that scene? Haven't read the remake yet.
That wasn't a shark, that was a mass of curses strong enough to kill servants in a singularity that explicitly weakens servants when they normally wouldn't have trouble with something like zombies. There are also bigger strength feats than Asterios. Achilles, for example, managed to push an entire plane mid air in Apocrypha.
Point is, her "base power" is nebulous and sort of irrelevant. Because it depends on her energy reserves and whether she can process that energy effectively. At times in the series she wouldn't even sustain any sort of injury but she would still be in pain merely because she used a certain amount of power while injured.
Melty Blood manga is an adaptation, and a mirror image means it's the exact same size and weight as the actual moon. It also goes in line with Nasu's statement of CM vs Zel being similar to Aoko vs Flat Snark but on a completely different scale, to the point where he'll need 5x the budget of Mahoyo in order to portray it accurately.
Caving in a whole park and making a chasm 40 meters deep in one hit and throwing 7000 tons of rock.
Feel free to post them. I haven't heard of them.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Eh, I feel like by that logic every servant's power is nebulous and irrelevant because their power also depends on their energy reserves and whether they can process it effectively.
I think it's pretty likely that it's not the actual size and weight of the moon since it's been consistently considerably smaller in all of its depictions (Melty Blood games & manga, carnival phantasm, Fate/Extra). Besides, if it was the size and weight of the actual moon, CM would be destroying himself alongside Zel as well as ruining his own plans to rebuild his kingdom on Earth since the Earth would literally be destroyed. Also Aoko vs Flat Snark isn't on a very big scale in the first place, it wouldn't take much to be "on a completely different scale" from it.
A city weighs much more than 7000 tons. Arc is nowhere near Quet's level of strength.
Edit: Not to mention Asterios' strength feat happened while he was injured and consequently not indicative of his full strength.
Last edited by Clown; August 11th, 2022 at 10:50 PM.
yeah cuz she's above it
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