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Thread: Fate/Grand Order: Babylonia

  1. #3481
    I thought that scene was just Ishtar talking to Mashu from the game

  2. #3482
    リビングデッド Living Dead Lelo's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's the Ishtar-Mashu talk with the Leonidas flashback.
    It's probably what we see in the preview

  3. #3483
    死徒 Dead Apostle ballinamon's Avatar
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    I interpret Tiamat more like a natural disaster, the impending doom that is drawing near. Something like the meteor in Armageddon movie. Maybe for that the lack of characterization doesn't bother me.

  4. #3484
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballinamon View Post
    I interpret Tiamat more like a natural disaster, the impending doom that is drawing near. Something like the meteor in Armageddon movie. Maybe for that the lack of characterization doesn't bother me.
    Yeah, but if the aspect of it is supposed to be leaving the nest, moving on from the mother and all that, means that it's more than kaiju slaying. Though even that theme is odd. When you leave your parents, you don't leave forever, that's what the aspect of grandparents is about, having your own kids to bring home to your parents, and the circle of life.
    Maybe that's why I thought the entire situation was kinda hammy, as its implying she had no place from the start and was used for the convenience of humanity. Like how we plan to screw over the Earth and then bail to the stars, saying peace out to ol' Gaia.

    Man, the more I think about it, the shittier we look.

  5. #3485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
    Yeah, but if the aspect of it is supposed to be leaving the nest, moving on from the mother and all that, means that it's more than kaiju slaying. Though even that theme is odd. When you leave your parents, you don't leave forever, that's what the aspect of grandparents is about, having your own kids to bring home to your parents, and the circle of life.
    Maybe that's why I thought the entire situation was kinda hammy, as its implying she had no place from the start and was used for the convenience of humanity. Like how we plan to screw over the Earth and then bail to the stars, saying peace out to ol' Gaia.

    Man, the more I think about it, the shittier we look.
    I mean, are we really sure Tiamat is the real creator of humanity, or just prehistoric lifeforms that became humanity, if that?

    Textures are hard

  6. #3486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelo View Post
    Yeah, there's the Ishtar-Mashu talk with the Leonidas flashback. It's probably what we see in the preview
    My mistake then. I forgot about the Leo flashback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I mean, are we really sure Tiamat is the real creator of humanity, or just prehistoric lifeforms that became humanity, if that? Textures are hard
    Depends. Is Tiamat a few thousand years old? Or millions? Can't see how she could have directly created humanity or even been involved with them, if the latter.

  7. #3487
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Something to take note of:

    More than one creation myth involves taking the big grandpappy/gramma out to the metaphorical farm, popping the metaphorical cap in his/her metaphorical arse, and optionally using the body, or a part of the body, to make the earth, or some other realm.

    It's usually the gods that do it, not humans, but the concept still kind of applies.
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  8. #3488
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    My mistake then. I forgot about the Leo flashback.

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    Depends. Is Tiamat a few thousand years old? Or millions? Can't see how she could have directly created humanity or even been involved with them, if the latter.
    Millions. Tiamat has been around since the... cretaceous?

  9. #3489
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballinamon View Post
    I interpret Tiamat more like a natural disaster, the impending doom that is drawing near. Something like the meteor in Armageddon movie. Maybe for that the lack of characterization doesn't bother me.
    That is because you either forgot the scene explaining what she represents (which the anime cut) or you just don't get the theme Nasu went with.

    All Beasts, regardless of who they originally are, are NOT natural disasters whatsoever. They are disasters born from humanity's growth and at core represents humanity to the utmost extreme, even if they look and act inhuman. Tiamat in particular represents regression, the wish of redoing things over (in the form of wanting to be mother of humanity again). Wanting to redo something is a very human thing, yet pushed to the extreme with Tiamat.

    But hey, it is your choice to ignore what actually made Babylonia great and treat it as an average popcorn story. However, you not having problem with cutting actual content from the game in favor of additional dumb comedy does not mean cutting such contents was fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I mean, are we really sure Tiamat is the real creator of humanity, or just prehistoric lifeforms that became humanity, if that?

    Textures are hard
    Not actually texture related.
    Quote Originally Posted by part 5, Babylonia
    Life is born from the sea, the primordial sea Nammu, the Goddess of Beginning Nammu. To humans, the goddess is the sea".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    Can't see how she could have directly created humanity or even been involved with them, if the latter.
    It's the same as how Gil also called her Mother like Ishtar. Not direct mother per se, just big mother of life cuz Nammu created humans. It would be a bit more accurate to call Tiamat the Grandmother of Mesopotamia like in Kingprotea's profile.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    That is because you either forgot the scene explaining what she represents (which the anime cut) or you just don't get the theme Nasu went with.

    All Beasts, regardless of who they originally are, are NOT natural disasters whatsoever. They are disasters born from humanity's growth and at core represents humanity to the utmost extreme, even if they look and act inhuman. Tiamat in particular represents regression, the wish of redoing things over (in the form of wanting to be mother of humanity again). Wanting to redo something is a very human thing, yet pushed to the extreme with Tiamat.

    But hey, it is your choice to ignore what actually made Babylonia great and treat it as an average popcorn story. However, you not having problem with cutting actual content from the game in favor of additional dumb comedy does not mean cutting such contents was fine.

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    Not actually texture related.


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    It's the same as how Gil also called her Mother like Ishtar. Not direct mother per se, just big mother of life cuz Nammu created humans. It would be a bit more accurate to call Tiamat the Grandmother of Mesopotamia like in Kingprotea's profile.
    Yeah, as I recall, Tiamat has no relation to textures. This is before all that was made and she is the progenitor of life on Earth. She even has the skill nega-genesis to avoid being retconned by creation myths or theory of evolution.

    I don't get this though
    Beast II was “a womb discarded after the Genesis”, becoming the origin of Sumerian Mythology. She was turned into a “Mother Sea” and was put to use as a breeding ground to produce life, but once the earth’s environment stabilized and after the ecosystems were established, she was banished to the World of Imaginary Numbers (a world on the Reverse Side; an imaginary space that has no life and is not even a Parallel World) as something unnecessary. (Seeing that the ecosystem was already established, there is no need for her, one who designs life randomly, and it is said that regarding the course the lifeforms who acquired intelligence conforms to, she was nothing but an impediment by now.) Hereafter, Beast II has been waiting in the mirror world for a chance to return back to her original world.

    Beast II, who achieved her return to this world due to the distortion of the Holy Grail, has started to clean up humanity in accordance with her primal instincts. Although there is resentment/hatred/sadness for being abandoned for having already served her purpose, there is also a conduct in indulging in the “joy” of coming back to repaint the earth’s ecosystems once again as the mother of everything.

    Her Class was determined by her real nature mentioned above. The Primordial Goddess and the like are but false titles. Deserted by the humans, that being is one of the great disasters most rejected by human history. That name is Beast II. One of the seven Evils of Humanity, the Beast that carries the principle of “Regression”.
    Also, the title called Femme Fatale was something given by Beast I (Goetia). Goetia successfully saw the true nature of Beast II’s core, so he bestowed a title meant for a Woman of Destiny rather than one meant for a Mother of the Gods (Magna Mater). At the bottom of her hatred towards humanity, there is also joy towards humanity for becoming a mother, as well as love towards humanity, them being the children of her first-generation children. For this reason, Beast II binds herself. A mother’s love is something necessary for growth, but it is something unnecessary for adults. In order for humanity to advance to the next stage, they must overcome the “original woman”.
    Her materials are very specific towards humanity but they shouldn't have even existed during her time.

  11. #3491
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    This looks like a VERY good episode. What would make it better is if they don't completely invalidate Quetz sacrifice

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    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronove View Post
    I don't get this though

    Her materials are very specific towards humanity but they shouldn't have even existed during her time.
    I think it's for Nammu aka Tiamat's prototype from Sumerian myth, as mentioned by the dream scene and Tiamat's full gauge attack - Nammu Duranki. Nammu's big role after she births the cosmos is literally creating humans with Enki. So Beast II, while being known by the name Tiamat, is also Nammu.


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  13. #3493
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors weeblord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mami-kouga View Post
    This looks like a VERY good episode. What would make it better is if they don't completely invalidate Quetz sacrifice
    Its a nakaya onsen ep after all

  14. #3494
    死徒 Dead Apostle ballinamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
    Yeah, but if the aspect of it is supposed to be leaving the nest, moving on from the mother and all that, means that it's more than kaiju slaying. Though even that theme is odd. When you leave your parents, you don't leave forever, that's what the aspect of grandparents is about, having your own kids to bring home to your parents, and the circle of life.
    Maybe that's why I thought the entire situation was kinda hammy, as its implying she had no place from the start and was used for the convenience of humanity. Like how we plan to screw over the Earth and then bail to the stars, saying peace out to ol' Gaia.
    Man, the more I think about it, the shittier we look.
    Can those concepts even make it as an explanation in an animated format. I mean, I don't play the game, but aside from the dream sequence thing and Ishtar being sad of have to fight with Tiamat there is a specific form to transmit "Tiamat actually didn't want to kill us but is like this is and blah blah" in the anime clearly. I don't a person of pick in details.

  15. #3495
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballinamon View Post
    Can those concepts even make it as an explanation in an animated format. I mean, I don't play the game, but aside from the dream sequence thing and Ishtar being sad of have to fight with Tiamat there is a specific form to transmit "Tiamat actually didn't want to kill us but is like this is and blah blah" in the anime clearly. I don't a person of pick in details.
    Because the anime mostly remove those details, duh

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    See? Now they see Tiamat as just Typhon, or apocalyptic thing without anything relevant behind it

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    "But... but... it the end it doesn't matter. They still gonna beat Tiamat anyway and Tiamat still want to destory humanity. It's just the same"

    Yeah, but duh, what make the story different than the other is because they have something that they represent, not just popcorn big apocalyptic fight without any relevant theme behind it
    Spoiler:

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  16. #3496
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    https://open.spotify.com/album/5FFX4...RAyWn-smNg7Pjg

    milet is on spotify and the Prover/Tell me EP just released

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballinamon View Post
    Can those concepts even make it as an explanation in an animated format.
    That's the challenge, no?
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
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  17. #3497
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    So, lots of delays, but I finally got to watch episode 16. Enkidu's scene was pretty well directed, just cheesy enough to be heartfelt without going overboard, the music was on point, but more importantly, damn. All the actors really kicked it out of the park this time, Kobayashi Yu (Enkidu), Uchiyama Yumi (Siduri), Shimazaki (Ritsuka)... but most of all, Saori Hayami. Damn. Her evil Ushiwakamaru gave me chills. Animation, not much to note, fights still hard to follow despite being reasonably well animated, only real standout was Ushiwaka's cloning scene.
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  18. #3498
    I cried at Uchiyama's performance once before, when she was announced to be Siduri, I knew I would cry again

  19. #3499
    リビングデッド Living Dead Stevethepi's Avatar
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    I get why people want the Tiamat stuff in their but the nonsense about people just not getting the themes is pretty toxic. There is plenty to like about Babylonia and if you had to put in down to a single thing I think the idea that its somehow Tiamat who is utterly undeveloped is a bit silly.
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    I mean, plenty judge without being able to actually read the story, so why not judge when nobody can actually read the story?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevethepi View Post
    I get why people want the Tiamat stuff in their but the nonsense about people just not getting the themes is pretty toxic. There is plenty to like about Babylonia and if you had to put in down to a single thing I think the idea that its somehow Tiamat who is utterly undeveloped is a bit silly.
    I do remember you not understanding the fact that mother instinct is not exclusive to humans, so you out of all people is the one who is the most clueless here about Tiamat's deal and what she represents in the story. So you can go ahead and like other things that might be more understandable for your taste. That however, does not change the fact that Tiamat is central to the entire story and is the force behind everyone's actions. In case you forgot, not only Merlin and King Hassan but Gil himself shows respect to Tiamat by the end. Why the hell would the most arrogant guy in the series who had his entire country ruined decided to go full respect for this monster who caused all this destruction? This is the question the game managed to answer, by giving her characterization.

    There are a lot to like about Babylonia, that much is true. But just because you like other things than the characterization of the main freaking antagonist of the chapter, that doesn't mean those things you like are more important and that I am toxic and silly to expect it. You can like this character moments, you can like that character interactions, you can say that X is what made the story for you, be my guest. But this is not about personal taste, it's about the grand themes that the author tried to convey throughout the chapter. The relationship between humans and gods, the evil and love of humanity, the conflict between serving your purpose and finding your own meaning of life. I'm sure you know which of those refers to which character arcs. And if you don't, then I WILL also say that you don't get the theme. Not getting the theme is not the same as not caring about the character in question, you got that confused.

    If expecting the adaptation to at least TRY and give characterization to the final boss who embodies the big theme of the story is silly, then finding the lack of it being ok is even more silly.


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