Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Mcjon01]

Millennial is a word for anyone younger than the speaker who thinks the speaker is old

[Rafflesiac]

Mobile Games, And How KIDS THESE DAYS Are Killing Visual Novels

[Dullahan]

they are though

fuckin zoomers

[Bloble]

doomers please go

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Mobile visual novel

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Gau and I are zoomers (or at least I think 20 counts as zoomer, idk)

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I've personally lost track of generational classifications, and I think the whole system kind of breaks down post-1980, unless people in the future do find an appropriate umbrella.

But if zoomer means Gen Z, then yes, I'm probably a zoomer. I turn 21 this year.

[Zurvan]

Classifying groups based on when they were born is for the old and bitter anyway

[Tobias]

You sound like you were born in the smart aleck generation

/now get off my lawn

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

You sound like you were born in the smart aleck generation

/now get off my lawn

Yeah, yeah, jii-san. Will do.

[Deathhappens]

I see it more as a shell game, where you have to show enough to keep people engaged, but not too much lest people see it's all rigged.

That's true of all writers that have to make up their own "set of rules" (aka pretty much all fiction, but especially fantasy). The problem (if you regard it as such) is, Nasu started juggling so many balls he's let pretty much all of them fall, partly because of the involvement of more and more writers with their own views on things but also because of his own laissez-faire attitude about the whole thing. Sure, it might be preferable to a neurotic like G.R.R. Martin who treats his work like the Gospel and has (allegedly) a passage in his will about destroying his computer and all his writing notes, but the fact is the curtain has grown too many holes for the play to be adequately entertaining anymore. At least I, personally (and though some may not realise or admit it, I believe the same applies to others on this forum) have long ceased any investment in "deciphering the works" of the Nasuverse; the rules are made up and the points don't matter. That might encourage writer participation, but it's also a fact that it decreases reader investment in the stories produced thereby. Why care about the tragic death of this or that character when they can turn up alive in the next page by the works of that or this heretofore unmentioned Deus Ex Machina? Or better yet, grab their quirky alternate reality counterpart, who acts exactly like the first one did only with a shinier coat of paint.
(Am I talking about the Nasuverse or Marvel Comics, now?)

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Let it be known that when I wrote all that it was in the full knowledge that it would be rendered irrelevant by the next couple of pages, yet I did it anyway.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

TBF, there is SOME internal consistency that remains. Actually, you could say the same about Marvel comics...At least DC has an in-universe mechanism for reboots.

Also, until I learn to read enough Japanese, I come here for other people to decipher scripture for me.

[mAc Chaos]

People are super serious about Marvel and DC lore though.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

People are super serious about Marvel and DC lore though.

Wasn't necessarily denying that. This fandom is pretty serious in some circles too, since we have a whole hierarchy of who knows the materials best and we essentially rely on interpreters to give us their judgments like it's scripture.

[Zurvan]

Heed the words of the mighty lorekeepers, the secret order that know all things Nasuverse

[Ruisu]

Why care about the tragic death of this or that character when they can turn up alive in the next page by the works of that or this heretofore unmentioned Deus Ex Machina? Or better yet, grab their quirky alternate reality counterpart, who acts exactly like the first one did only with a shinier coat of paint.
(Am I talking about the Nasuverse or Marvel Comics, now?)

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Let it be known that when I wrote all that it was in the full knowledge that it would be rendered irrelevant by the next couple of pages, yet I did it anyway.

Idk if this will sound rude, if it does please forgive me, but I kinda have no idea why you went with that kind of hypothetical scenario in your example since it doesn't really happen in any nasuverse work that I can recall? Unless you mean something like "Sakura-face showing up in FGO makes me less invested in her FSN story" or whatever, even though most of those are mostly set in different, stand-alone, continuities very much unlike anything in the mainline of DC/Marvel properties. Hell there isn't even a proper canon rule when it comes to fate stuff probably so that you don't have to crack skulls trying to figure out how 'new rules' fit retroactively with 'old rules' or whatever.

[Deathhappens]

Idk if this will sound rude, if it does please forgive me, but I kinda have no idea why you went with that kind of hypothetical scenario in your example since it doesn't really happen in any nasuverse work that I can recall? Unless you mean something like "Sakura-face showing up in FGO makes me less invested in her FSN story" or whatever, even though most of those are mostly set in different, stand-alone, continuities very much unlike anything in the mainline of DC/Marvel properties. Hell there isn't even a proper canon rule when it comes to fate stuff probably so that you don't have to crack skulls trying to figure out how 'new rules' fit retroactively with 'old rules' or whatever.

I'll quote this post again when Olga and Romani reappear.

Also, loli Da Vinci, just off the top of my head. I feel like FGO in general had a lot of these "dead but not really" scares, though I wouldn't care to go back and count them (oh right, Mashu in Solomon, again off the top of my head). But really, that was just one example of how having no real rules lowers both the stakes and the immersion for the readers. We've also had numerous Servants introduced who belonged in the realm of terrible fanfiction up until a few years ago. Why bother arguing, for example, whether William Tell would qualify as a Servant and how when apparently a random ESPer from modern-day Japan qualifies for handwavey reasons that are really "because she showed up in another popular TM work"?

[You]

At least I, personally (and though some may not realise or admit it, I believe the same applies to others on this forum) have long ceased any investment in "deciphering the works" of the Nasuverse; the rules are made up and the points don't matter. That might encourage writer participation, but it's also a fact that it decreases reader investment in the stories produced thereby. Why care about the tragic death of this or that character when they can turn up alive in the next page by the works of that or this heretofore unmentioned Deus Ex Machina? Or better yet, grab their quirky alternate reality counterpart, who acts exactly like the first one did only with a shinier coat of paint.
(Am I talking about the Nasuverse or Marvel Comics, now?)

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Let it be known that when I wrote all that it was in the full knowledge that it would be rendered irrelevant by the next couple of pages, yet I did it anyway.

I'll quote this post again when Olga and Romani reappear.

Also, loli Da Vinci, just off the top of my head. I feel like FGO in general had a lot of these "dead but not really" scares, though I wouldn't care to go back and count them (oh right, Mashu in Solomon, again off the top of my head). But really, that was just one example of how having no real rules lowers both the stakes and the immersion for the readers. We've also had numerous Servants introduced who belonged in the realm of terrible fanfiction up until a few years ago. Why bother arguing, for example, whether William Tell would qualify as a Servant and how when apparently a random ESPer from modern-day Japan qualifies for handwavey reasons that are really "because she showed up in another popular TM work"?

It we're talking about "dead not dead", your gripe has been a constant in the TM works since the beginning.

If we look at Tsukihime there's Kagetsu and Melty Blood. Especially Melty Blood.
If we look at FSN there's HA and sequel which validates HA's premise.
In Knk where the deaths are arguably the most permanent, there's still Touko (who with Aoko are possibly the most important Nasuverse Characters) whose entire shtick is that you can't get rid of her.
Not to mention Mahoyo.
This isn't a FGO problem. You've just been given the same scenario over and over again with the same general beats maybe just in a slightly different order that you've become numb to it.

Imagine a doll that can speak to its owner, but only a few phrases.
"Hello", "thank you", "I'm sorry", "good night" - "I love you."
These reactions delight the buyer, but it's clear that they will soon be disappointed.

"No matter what I say, the doll can only say predetermined phrases. It just keeps repeating that tired old 'I love you'."
Realizing that the love the doll speaks of is a false emotion, the buyer will likely discard it eventually.
But humans are the ones who see that as empty words and a manufactured fake.
Even if it doesn't have a "heart", even if it's only repeating the same words, there are no lies in the actions of machines.
They innocently carry out the task they were given.
"I love you."
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.

Makes you think

[Zurvan]

So, essentially

FGO bad

[Deathhappens]

It we're talking about "dead not dead", your gripe has been a constant in the TM works since the beginning.

If we look at Tsukihime there's Kagetsu and Melty Blood. Especially Melty Blood.
If we look at FSN there's HA and sequel which validates HA's premise.
In Knk where the deaths are arguably the most permanent, there's still Touko (who with Aoko are possibly the most important Nasuverse Characters) whose entire shtick is that you can't get rid of her.
Not to mention Mahoyo.
This isn't a FGO problem. You've just been given the same scenario over and over again with the same general beats maybe just in a slightly different order that you've become numb to it.



Makes you think

Uh, I never said it was an FGO problem. I was talking about the Nasuverse, the whole thing. FGO just happens to be the most recent and egregious offender, but hey, Extella had Altera disappearing-but-not-really in the True End.

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That's true of all writers that have to make up their own "set of rules" (aka pretty much all fiction, but especially fantasy). The problem (if you regard it as such) is, Nasu started juggling so many balls he's let pretty much all of them fall, partly because of the involvement of more and more writers with their own views on things but also because of his own laissez-faire attitude about the whole thing. Sure, it might be preferable to a neurotic like G.R.R. Martin who treats his work like the Gospel and has (allegedly) a passage in his will about destroying his computer and all his writing notes, but the fact is the curtain has grown too many holes for the play to be adequately entertaining anymore. At least I, personally (and though some may not realise or admit it, I believe the same applies to others on this forum) have long ceased any investment in "deciphering the works" of the Nasuverse; the rules are made up and the points don't matter. That might encourage writer participation, but it's also a fact that it decreases reader investment in the stories produced thereby. Why care about the tragic death of this or that character when they can turn up alive in the next page by the works of that or this heretofore unmentioned Deus Ex Machina? Or better yet, grab their quirky alternate reality counterpart, who acts exactly like the first one did only with a shinier coat of paint.
(Am I talking about the Nasuverse or Marvel Comics, now?)

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Let it be known that when I wrote all that it was in the full knowledge that it would be rendered irrelevant by the next couple of pages, yet I did it anyway.

It's right there in my original post.

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So, essentially

FGO bad

FGO is the symptom, not the disease.

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Updated for updated to updated because updated