Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Bugs]

I honest to God didn't need to think about Zouken hotgluing anything today.

[Deathhappens]

Me neither, but it's a good analogy.

[eddyak]

Zouken is on the PTA and helped put together the original Grail system.

I'm fairly sure he doesn't have any sort of bad rep at all.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Since we have Kayneth and all that entailed with him, I'd swallow that if he himself didn't basically say the guy was vile.
Using You's joke, it would be like a dude that thought somebody was a shonen scrub, but let him into his circle of the slice of life enthusiasts.

No, I'll do one even better, Zouken is a dude who has a rep for hotgluing any figure he gets. Tokiomi knows this, but since he is a fellow collector of figures, he gives a one of a kind figure he couldn't keep, and gives it to him. It of course turns into a splotchy mess.

Even then, my previous idea sort of kicks in because even if Tokiomi knew Zouken was vile, he probably thought, he has to have SOME standards, right? Like, there's no way he'd do THAT.

And Zouken went and made him look like a huge idiot. The end.

[You]

Even then, my previous idea sort of kicks in because even if Tokiomi knew Zouken was vile, he probably thought, he has to have SOME standards, right? Like, there's no way he'd do THAT.
And Zouken went and made him look like a huge idiot. The end.

It goes further than that. In the magi world, no one wants to be associated with a dying family, Eg what happened to Darnic.

…A bitter memory from over eighty years ago surfaced in his mind.

At the time, he had been decorated with a brilliant debut as an up-and-coming young magus, and had suddenly obtained a marriage proposal. It was a good match for marriage. Darnic would be tying himself to a clan of long lineage that stood amongst the aristocratic Lords of the Clock Tower.

But then it all came to a halt there. The Yggdmillennia blood was polluted and impure, and couldn’t maintain itself past the fifth generation. ‘All that’s left is ruin for your clan,’ a certain magus had warned him.

—Ridiculous. As long as the clan continues past the fifth generation, any number of counter-measures can be thought of.

But it seemed the only one who thought that way was Darnic. The clan he was about to marry into didn’t like risks, and so to them, he immediately became an outsider that had to be excluded.

Even his future brother-in-law, who had slapped his back with a smile and sworn friendship with him, and the woman who was to be his spouse, who had shyly whispered her love to him, had both turned away from him.

—That’s fine. Such things happen.

Tokiomi gives his daughter who he could have used to forge powerful Clocktower alliances to said charity case. I guess he really wanted two fingers in the Grail honey pot.

[Dullahan]

Grail wars make you stupid.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

It goes further than that. In the magi world, no one wants to be associated with a dying family, Eg what happened to Darnic.

Tokiomi gives his daughter who he could have used to forge powerful Clocktower alliances to said charity case. I guess he really wanted two fingers in the Grail honey pot.

......Goddamit FZ/FSN Tokiomi. I guess that was his manifestation of the Tohsaka screwup trait, that and his choosing of Gilgamesh as a Servant and Kirei as a protege.

[Gray]

Eh, Gilgamesh is a great Servant on paper. Not sure how one could actually handle Gilgamesh well at all in his position but at least he didn't go full Einzbern and try summoning the God of Evil.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Exactly, it was a good idea on paper, but it spectacularly blew up in his face in reality, a textbook Tohsaka screwup.

[Gray]

Well in speaking of Gil. I'm kind of annoyed at how his vault is retroactive.

[Skull]

^ Why?

[Menwearpink]

Well in speaking of Gil. I'm kind of annoyed at how his vault is retroactive.

Thing that represents idea of having all the things has all the things, stop the presses.

Otherwise dealing with servants is always hard let's be honest.

[Gray]

I'm not sure what annoys me about it really.
He represents some sort of supremacy of the past I suppose.
How can humanity ever reach beyond past glories if the past glories crib all their notes. With the only way to get beyond that to apparently not count as human anymore.

It adds some hollowness to the status of his things being original. When his "originals" aren't guaranteed to really be the actual original, but some hypothetical originals that never existed.
I know there's some philosophy about the platonic ideals or whatever but it still bothers me.

[Blastedspider]

I think the problem is that originally Nasu conflated historical "Babylon" (Uruk, Mesopotamia) with Biblical "Babylon" (as in The Tower of Babel). So the world was one and that's why Gilgamesh could physically collect all the treasures which later became Noble Phantasms.

However at some point this idea was discarded (they mention that Kingdom of Egypt already existed during Gil's reign in GO for example), but Gate of Bablyon was already there, so it needed another justification.

Then again the lore is unclear even in CCC: Gil used the treasures against Enkidu in their first meeting, while his Servant Matrix says that Gate of Babylon shoots out treasures he collected during his life. I am not sure did GO changed anything in that regard.

Also Unified Language is still a thing too, so the Tower story did actually happen.

[eddyak]

I'm not sure what annoys me about it really.
He represents some sort of supremacy of the past I suppose.
How can humanity ever reach beyond past glories if the past glories crib all their notes. With the only way to get beyond that to apparently not count as human anymore.

It adds some hollowness to the status of his things being original. When his "originals" aren't guaranteed to really be the actual original, but some hypothetical originals that never existed.
I know there's some philosophy about the platonic ideals or whatever but it still bothers me.

Drake, Tesla and so on are examples of the new surpassing the old.

[SpoonyViking]

Yeah, but he's not wrong; F/SN in general is very reactionary.

[Dullahan]

tesla is...........reddit

[Gray]

Drake, Tesla and so on are examples of the new surpassing the old.

Not really. Because Gill has their shit, but it's better because he had it first despite it not existing when he was alive.

[RoydGolden]

Yeah, but he's not wrong; F/SN in general is very reactionary.

Well, Nasu himself has made it clear that modern science will eventually surpass everything Magecraft can do and more. So I don't know if I'd say his worldview is reactionary, even if some of his works can be read that way. If anything he can be accused of being overly bound to an enlightenment ideal of progress, which is the exact opposite of a reactionary.

[Dullahan]

I'm not sure what annoys me about it really.
He represents some sort of supremacy of the past I suppose.
How can humanity ever reach beyond past glories if the past glories crib all their notes. With the only way to get beyond that to apparently not count as human anymore.

With the only way to get beyond that to apparently not count as human anymore.

not count as human anymore

Almost there...just keep following this train of thought a few more steps and you'll see...