Unpopular TM opinions you have

[alienncoww]

Personally I feel Clocktower 2015 Lev was the "truest" mage, very unpopular opinion tho

[eddyak]

Come to think of it, Touko, Waver and to a lesser extent, Inorai are kinda notable for being the most mage like characters even though their behavior somewhat deviates from the mage standard, especially in that they don't obsess over the Root (anymore).

Because magi that follow the magus lifestyle don't make for very interesting protagonists.

People like it when you're looking after & tutorialising muggles with special abilities, or are in the process of learning life lessons and growing up, or since I don't know who Inorai is, taking the ginger nerd and his Baeber out on a date because neither of them have ever done that before. People don't really like watching their protagonist stubbornly heading down a path they aren't sure will ever result in any thing, definitely won't result in anything in their entire lifetime, and not going out of their way to be relatable or likeable.

[Reign]

Inorai is Touko's teacher, she's in El-Melloi.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Personally I feel Clocktower 2015 Lev was the "truest" mage, very unpopular opinion tho

That was what Clocktower 2015 was going for, so I don't see how that's unpopular.

[Mattias]

Because magi that follow the magus lifestyle don't make for very interesting protagonists.

It would be an entire anime of nothing but the MC sitting in a library reading a book. Maybe going to their lab for the mid season cliffhanger, where they procede to stare at beakers for the whole runtime.

[Deathhappens]

I mean, you could follow someone like Great Grandpa Tohsaka, who was convinced he could reach the Root via martial arts, but I think we've hit the quota on blade autist protagonists.

[aldeayeah]

The pokemon collecting adventures of young Nrvnqsr?

[eddyak]

It would be an entire anime of nothing but the MC sitting in a library reading a book. Maybe going to their lab for the mid season cliffhanger, where they procede to stare at beakers for the whole runtime.

Arguing with the bursar over their research funding being ever so slightly less than the last semester, for the sixth semester in a row, all the while claiming they're this close to the next breakthrough.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I mean, you could follow someone like Great Grandpa Tohsaka, who was convinced he could reach the Root via martial arts, but I think we've hit the quota on blade autist protagonists.

I think this is only Apo Rin's method. The Tohsaka definitely traditionally learned Chinese martial arts, but I don't actually remember if there's anything saying Nagato pursued this method prior to collaborating with Makiri and Justeaze.

[Deathhappens]

I think this is only Apo Rin's method. The Tohsaka definitely traditionally learned Chinese martial arts, but I don't actually remember if there's anything saying Nagato pursued this method prior to collaborating with Makiri and Justeaze.

I don't quite remember which mats book or whatever it was stated in, but his earnestness was the reason Zelretch decided to take him under his wing (which really just amounted to giving him the Jewel Sword as homework). That's also why the Tohsaka family magic started to focus on using jewels from that point on

EDIT: It was Fate/Side Material.

Nagato Tohsaka [Person's name]
The Tohsaka family head during the very first Holy Grail War, two hundred years ago.
He took part in the ritual at the request of Makiri Zouken and Justeaze.
Though traditionally the Tohsaka were a clan of secret Christians, one day a strange old man appeared out of nowhere and led them astray. Ever since then, they have devoted themselves to the world of sorcery.
With their contacts in the Holy Church and favorable treatment from the Association as disciples of a magician, they are in an enviable position.
It is due to their connections with both organizations that they were appointed the managers of Fuyuki.
At any rate, Nagato viewed sorcery and martial arts as equal, and was attempting to reach the Root via a state of mushin (no-mind) when he was recruited by the Einzberns and Makiri.
As you might expect from Rin's ancestor, he was prone to goofing up. Also, it seems that his daughter was the one with talent for sorcery, and ended up being far more useful in the construction of the Great Holy Grail than her father was.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Oh cool. Thanks for that.

[Byegod]

Mystery is certainly a law of the setting it never goes into, despite it being innately tied to its themes. It's a necessary excuse for a whole lot of stuff, but does not seem to come from any logical principle besides being a counterweight to progress. That's why I've always figured it's not natural, and caused by a true magic or something.

It's not one of the WoD leftovers either, Mage works on Consensus and Paradox, meaning that magic used to be easier because there were fewer people around who could disbelieve it. Nasu has thought about Mystery and decided to make it an integral part of the setting, which tells me there is more logic behind it than it just happens.

See Iv'e put far too much thought into mystery and i do think its unnatural but I think that in of itself would counteract the idea of "progress" nasu has

As we have things made in the modern day that seem to be copies or whatever of the original (the alter egos for example) and yet are still uber strong and there is no talk bout them messing with mystery, and wouldnt servant summoning violate or mess with mystery if it essentially photocopies servants? Then you got the whole bundle of worms that is FGO part 2 and the whole simulation theory....

[AAM1232]

I feel like you've not understood fully how mystery works here.

[fumei]

and wouldnt servant summoning violate or mess with mystery if it essentially photocopies servants? Then you got the whole bundle of worms that is FGO part 2 and the whole simulation theory....

If there's a finite amount of ink in the world, and I take a piece of paper you've written on from your book, and puts it in my own book, the amount of ink used remains the same.

[Byegod]

I feel like you've not understood fully how mystery works here.

Explain it to me then, Explain it in a way that makes FGO and later nasu works make any sense

If there's a finite amount of ink in the world, and I take a piece of paper you've written on from your book, and puts it in my own book, the amount of ink used remains the same.

Okay sure, what bout multiple of the same servant in the same place, also remember the old rule of "the stronger mystery always wins" or something along those lines but we have many examples of Nps that should be weaker mystery wise beating stronger ones? you cant have "compatibility" and have a absolute rule of "Stronger mystery always wins"

I mean I also hold the "controversial" opinion that clocktower and most magi lore is fucking stupid and makes no sense.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

For servant summoning system, they're derived from Counter Force's defense mechanism to summon Grands to protect the world from Beasts, which in turn, ironically, derived from how the Beasts manifested that they meant to fight. The World has been photocopying Servants long before humans start imitating them, so it's not harmful to mystery IMO.

[Mattias]

Arguing with the bursar over their research funding being ever so slightly less than the last semester, for the sixth semester in a row, all the while claiming they're this close to the next breakthrough.

Woah dude, don't ruin the season 4 plotline. You have to brave the "Daily Commute" arc before you get to red hot stuff like that.

[AAM1232]

Explain it to me then, Explain it in a way that makes FGO and later nasu works make any sense



Okay sure, what bout multiple of the same servant in the same place, also remember the old rule of "the stronger mystery always wins" or something along those lines but we have many examples of Nps that should be weaker mystery wise beating stronger ones? you cant have "compatibility" and have a absolute rule of "Stronger mystery always wins"

I mean I also hold the "controversial" opinion that clocktower and most magi lore is fucking stupid and makes no sense.

If Science is just the process by which various concepts and circumstances get assimilated into the Human Order/Common Sense of Man, Mystery is used to describe what aren't completely assimilated. Everything else follows from here.

As for the rest of the post, I've no idea how or why Servants existing and their compatibility/advantages/disadvantages are difficult for you to understand. I feel like you've not really explained what your complaint is?

[Byegod]

If Science is just the process by which various concepts and circumstances get assimilated into the Human Order/Common Sense of Man, Mystery is used to describe what aren't completely assimilated. Everything else follows from here.

As for the rest of the post, I've no idea how or why Servants existing and their compatibility/advantages/disadvantages are difficult for you to understand. I feel like you've not really explained what your complaint is?

Sorry, not good at explaining things

The latter part I was more noting how the rules of mystery feel very.. arbitrary when it comes to that absolute rule I mentioned of 'Stronger mystery wins' and then we have a dozen + examples of younger mysteries winning or fending off something that should be far stronger, exmaples off the top of my head would be something like mashu shield vs goetia uber big laser beam, when shouldnt due to how the mechanics of that laser work being like at least several thousands more of "history" beat her shield?

Mind you I dont mind powerlevels being beaten by compatability, I just dont think its done... well when that rule "seems" so "absoloute" in how its explained, though i can understand ignoring the rule, like how most modern caster servants can get round MR or have some other way to fight cause MR would just make things be boring otherwise

[asterism42]

Think of it like physical size. The bigger guy is going to have an advantage in a fight, but it doesn't automatically mean that he'll win.