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Thread: Unpopular TM opinions you have

  1. #7081
    Hey! Are you ready to go? RoydGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJ3 View Post
    I can't remember if it's true or not Nasu has a sister
    Didn't he say he used to borrow shoujo manga from his sisters or something?

  2. #7082
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Nasu does have a sister and he did used to borrow shoujo manga from her, yes.
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
    My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.



  3. #7083
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Nah. Kiara was only described as "enormous motherhood" to contrast with Kama as "enormous maidenhood".

    Tiamat is the ultimate mother figure you're looking for, not Kiara.

    The bigger problem would be Kingprotea who has the earth mother essence but is a loli, aka motherhood and loli combined into 1.

    "While Kiara is the "boundless yet lone woman (or in other words, boundless motherhood)", Kama is the "all-encompassing yet lone girl (or in other words, all-encompassing girlhood)"."

    It's such a wierd fucking phrase that I cant help but see that something is up with nasu and his mom
    Last edited by Byegod; May 19th, 2020 at 11:31 PM.

  4. #7084
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    all-encompassing yet lone girl (male)
    ちょう
    もく


  5. #7085
    Don't @ me if your fanfic doesn't even have Shirou/Illya shipping k thnx ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    Armchair Freudians
    McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
    My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.



  6. #7086
    not really feeling it tbh Ratman's Avatar
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    Well the occult is big on hermaphrodites you know. To portray magecraft accurately you need to get a little Freudian 'cause it was written by freaks that worship sex which Nasu of course isn't, he's just adapting it into popular culture. How that entire bodhisattva stuff ties into it I'm not so sure. Likely Nasu started with the idea of the unbirthing earth into a demon's vagina and wondered how that could be accomplished, and the entire setting of Extra was written back from that premise over two whole games.

    When you think about it that way, it doesn't make it make any more sense, but at least excuses all the seemingly arbitary choices like Andersen's age, Blackbeard's acting out of his age, Alice being her own master etc. All these characters are really regressing into Kiara's womb in line with Fate's overall themes of regressing into the past. I'm not going to call it themes but you could probably call it something dumb like narrative synchronicity.

    Have you noticed that Kiara also goes by the moniker of Fujimura Taiga? I wonder how that could be important in the great picture?

  7. #7087
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Well the occult is big on hermaphrodites you know. To portray magecraft accurately you need to get a little Freudian 'cause it was written by freaks that worship sex which Nasu of course isn't, he's just adapting it into popular culture. How that entire bodhisattva stuff ties into it I'm not so sure. Likely Nasu started with the idea of the unbirthing earth into a demon's vagina and wondered how that could be accomplished, and the entire setting of Extra was written back from that premise over two whole games.

    When you think about it that way, it doesn't make it make any more sense, but at least excuses all the seemingly arbitary choices like Andersen's age, Blackbeard's acting out of his age, Alice being her own master etc. All these characters are really regressing into Kiara's womb in line with Fate's overall themes of regressing into the past. I'm not going to call it themes but you could probably call it something dumb like narrative synchronicity.

    Have you noticed that Kiara also goes by the moniker of Fujimura Taiga? I wonder how that could be important in the great picture?
    Two comments

    >which nasu of course isn't
    X for doubt there

    two

    " All these characters are really regressing into Kiara's womb in line with Fate's overall themes of regressing into the past"

    Isnt that nasu's writing in general, espeically reusing villain ideas

  8. #7088
    not really feeling it tbh Ratman's Avatar
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    I mean I just made a huge shitpost but nah, that's specifically Fate's thing. The very first scene in FSN, right after the clang bit, is Rin explaining the magecraft and technology thing, because it is very important as a framing device. Nonfate titles don't really give a crap about it except maybe whatever the frick Fifth is about, but Fate is all about reevaluating the past in active fear (read:avoidance) of the future.

    When we then say that Tsukihime is thematically opposed to Fate, it's because the events and plots of Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya and Melty Blood are motivated by the unchangeable past, pointed into the future and its looming inevitability, no matter what it's going to be.

    Case Files acknowledges these themes but manages to create a decent blend with Waver's character, I guess, which is why it's acknowledged as honorary notfate. You could make a case that some Fate spinoffs like Apocrypha don't really care about this at all, but that's because they're bad.

  9. #7089
    love warrior <3 world-0 the god of world-0's Avatar
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    Also, don't forget that Nasu's first idea for FSN was an otome game. I don't think he is a freak, just a tryhard. Kiara shoving earth in her vag may serve something thematic but is also very much shock value.


    here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)

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  10. #7090
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Is it really shock value after going through the rest of CCC tbh

  11. #7091
    not really feeling it tbh Ratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Isnt that nasu's writing in general, espeically reusing villain ideas
    To add, villain ideas also make a pretty good point of comparsion.

    Gilgamesh is obsessed with the past - he believes it was better than the present. He would take people's freedom to choose their future away, therefore he is evil.
    Kotomine is obsessed with the past - he's afraid he lived wrong. He is willing to destroy the future to find out, therefore he is evil.
    Goetia is obsessed with the past - he believes the whole history is wrong. He'd sacrifice the future to remodel it, therefore he is evil. (did you ever wonder what's up with the whole world ending after 2016 even though it already ended?)
    Kirschtaria is obsessed with the future, and tries to change the past to make it better. He did nothing wrong.

    Roa is obsessed with the future - he's afraid of death. He abandons his past to gain a future, therefore he is evil.
    Zepia is obsessed with the future - he's afraid of the apocalypse. He gave up his past self, therefore he is evil.
    Dust of Osiris is obsessed with the future - she wants to change it for what she thinks is better. She actively pushes out Sion who is her past, therefore she is evil.
    Kohaku is obsessed with the future - she is powerless in the moment. Her past seems to give her no choice in the matter, but since it is demonstrated she can make the right call, she is demonstrably 'evil' when she does not.

    It's really basic and dumb like that. I didn't write it.
    Last edited by Ratman; May 20th, 2020 at 02:21 AM.

  12. #7092
    CCC is the equivalent of finding nasu's deviantart page.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    To add, villain ideas also make a pretty good point of comparsion.

    Gilgamesh is obsessed with the past - he believes it was better than the present. He would take people's freedom to choose their future away, therefore he is evil.
    Kotomine is obsessed with the past - he's afraid he lived wrong. He is willing to destroy the future to find out, therefore he is evil.
    Goetia is obsessed with the past - he believes the whole history is wrong. He'd sacrifice the future to remodel it, therefore he is evil. (did you ever wonder what's up with the whole world ending after 2016 even though it already ended?)
    Kirschtaria is obsessed with the future, and tries to change the past to make it better. He did nothing wrong.

    Roa is obsessed with the future - he's afraid of death. He abandons his past to gain a future, therefore he is evil.
    Zepia is obsessed with the future (he's afraid of the apocalypse). He gave up his past self, therefore he is evil.
    Dust of Osiris is obsessed with the future - she wants to change it for what she thinks is better. She actively pushes out Sion who is her past, therefore she is evil.
    Kohaku is obsessed with the future - she is powerless in the moment. Her past seems to give her no choice in the matter, but since it is demonstrated she can make the right call, she is demonstrably 'evil' when she does not.

    It's really basic and dumb like that. I didn't write it.
    Less than that ratman, more literally reusing similar justificaitons like dust of osiris, lion king and zeus all pretty much having identical motivations of 'as long as the record is around' dumb shit.

  13. #7093
    not really feeling it tbh Ratman's Avatar
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    Isn't that just copying Eva?

  14. #7094
    Running away from Falconetti AsGryffynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    "While Kiara is the "boundless yet lone woman (or in other words, boundless motherhood)", Kama is the "all-encompassing yet lone girl (or in other words, all-encompassing girlhood)"."

    It's such a wierd fucking phrase that I cant help but see that something is up with nasu and his mom
    You noticed now. Did you also notice that Angel Notes is essentially an allegory for moving out of home instead of staying in the basement forever?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blastedspider View Post
    There is nothing wrong with that but relying on the opinion of a dangerous idiot character is a borderline grasping at straws.



    These are hardly rare by any means (and Unicron was vanquished by them).


    As far as I know no mythographer acknowledges the hypothetical transition of beliefs.
    From what I understand, they argue the Titans might have originated as imported Semitic deities, and that the ancient Minoan deities were eliminated in favor of those, like Britomartis.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering Swordwoman View Post
    Fact? Hmmm
    Seems people are now not allowed to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    UNKNOWN LOCATION, JAPAN, NEAR THE END OF THE SHOWA ERA (late 1980s)
    Mrs. Nasu [indulgently placing her hands on kinoko's shoulders and leaning over him from behind]: Ara ara, Kinoko-kun, you can't play video games all day. It's just no good. [Dame yo.] How will you ever get a job and support us in our old age if you don't study hard and go to school?
    Kinoko [cracking pubescent voice]: Yes mom.
    Kinoko [internal monologue]: Screw you, mom! I'm gonna get a job where I can play video games all I want!

    THIRTY YEARS LATER, AT THE HEADQUARTERS OF NOTES INC, TAITO WARD, TOKYO
    Nasu Kinoko: -I mean giant tits, like, the size of your head. So in order to prevent Tiamat from drowning the entire planet in her vaginal discharge, you need a large, rigid, sword-shaped beam kind of thing, such as might be gripped firmly in the hands - are you taking this down?
    Takeuchi Takashi [high on cocaine, recieving oral sex from a blonde prostitute in a high-waisted skirt concealed under the desk]: uhhhhh, yeah, yeah
    Even after reading it, I can't help but think of Elon Musk facetiming himself taking weed while talking about space and stuff.

    Like, I wouldn't trust Nasu with a rocket. He'll have a sex doll in a bike strapped to it and sent to the moon to see if it really is made from cheese.

    At least it beats me and my crew brainstorming while doing shots of Jagger whenever one of us cracks up.
    Ultima prophetiae, veni finis tempus;
    magnus ab integro saeclorum quod mortum. Finis magnus ordo.
    Iam redit Virgo Phaenomi regibus redeunt,
    nova progenies ad caelo surgit.
    Vestra puerorum, qui movere tempus ipsum, et rotam ferrea primum.
    Ac vestra lucis, omnes surgit futurum aureus, novo mundo nascens.

  15. #7095
    魔力供給 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    It's such a wierd fucking phrase that I cant help but see that something is up with nasu and his mom
    Gilgamesh, despite all destruction Tiamat caused to his country, never once called her mongrel, and even referred to her as "our Mother" at one point. Maybe he respected her that much and felt bad for her, or Nasu really is not ready to disobey his mom.


    みてってね、まおーさま!

  16. #7096
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Ajase strikes again

    Quote Originally Posted by Keigo Okinogi, "Psychoanalysis in Japan", in Akhtar, S. (ed.), Freud and the Far East: Psychoanalytic Perspectives on the People and Culture of China, Japan, and Korea, 2009
    The Story of Ajase and His Mother: Heisaku Kosawa’s Version

    The Ajase complex is an original theory developed by Heisaku Kosawa and subsequently expanded by myself. Whereas Freud based his Oedipus complex on a Greek tragedy, Kosawa developed his theory of the Ajase complex from stories found in Buddhist scripture. The story of Ajase centers on the Buddhist concept of reincarnation.

    Well known to the Buddhist world, Ajase’s story appears with many variations in the scriptures of ancient India. These scriptures entered Japan by way of China and Korea from approximately 700–1000 AD. Kosawa modeled his theory on the version of Ajase’s story appearing in the Kanmuryojukyo, a Buddhist scripture centering on the salvation of the mother. In this instance, the woman saved by the Buddha is Ajase’s mother, Idaike.

    Wife of King Bimbasara, the ruler of an ancient Indian kingdom, Idaike feared that as her beauty faded she was losing her husband’s love. She consulted a soothsayer, who told her a sage living in the forest would die in three years’ time, to be reborn as her son. However, Idaike was too anxious to wait three years, and, desperate to have a child, she killed the sage. As he was dying, the sage cursed Idaike, telling her that, reincarnated as her son, he would one day kill the king. Idaike became pregnant at this moment. The unborn Ajase had thus already been murdered by his mother’s egotism. Moreover, fearing the wrath of the sage reincarnated in her womb, Idaike attempted to kill her son by giving birth to him from the summit of a high tower. Ajase survived; however, having broken his little finger as a result of his fall, he was nicknamed “the prince with the broken finger.”

    Ajase passed a happy childhood. However, on reaching adolescence, he learned from Daibadatta, the enemy of Buddha, that his mother had attempted to kill him by giving birth from the top of a high tower; he had only to look at his broken little finger for proof. The Sanskrit word Ajatasatru means both “broken finger” and “prenatal rancor” (a term to be discussed below). Disillusioned with the mother he had idealized, Ajase attempted to kill her. He was subsequently overcome by guilt, however, and developed a severe skin disease, characterized by festering sores so offensive that no one dared approach him, except for his mother, Idaike. Despite his mother’s devoted care, Ajase did not readily recover; he even attempted several times to kill her. Seeking relief, Idaike went to the Buddha and told him of her sufferings. The Buddha’s teachings healed her inner conflict, and she returned to continue to care for Ajase. Eventually, the prince was cured to become a widely respected ruler. This is the version of the Ajase story Kosawa wrote in the 1950s, based on the Kanmuryojukuo.

    Themes of the Ajase Complex

    My own research has identified two fundamental aspects of the Ajase story as presented by Kosawa. I will also present, as a third point, Kosawa’s own examination of guilt in the Ajase complex.

    The Mother’s Conflict Between the Wish for a Child and Infanticidal Wishes.

    Queen Idaike wished to have a child in order to protect her status as queen and maintain her husband’s love—she took the extreme action of killing the sage to achieve her desires. However, believing that the birth of the reincarnated sage would bring disastrous results, Idaike began to fear the child in her womb. She then attempted to kill her child by giving birth to him from the top of a high tower.

    The story of Ajase illustrates two conflicting emotions on the part of the mother. On the one hand, she wishes to have a child in order to protect herself and to achieve her own desires. On the other hand, projecting persecutory imagery and hatred onto her baby, she becomes fearful of the child’s birth and attempts to kill him.

    According to Serge Lebovici, such conflict depicts the mother’s ambivalence concerning her bébé imaginaire. The egocentric conflict of the mother—her wishes both to have a child and to eliminate her baby—arouses persecutory anxiety through projection onto the child she carries. This unconscious maternal conflict appears clearly in the Ajase story.

    The Child’s Prenatal Rancor and Matricidal Wishes.

    Ajase experienced rage toward his origins from the moment of conception. As a reincarnation of the murdered sage, that is, he desired to kill his mother even before his
    birth. In Buddhism, this anger experienced toward birth itself is termed mishooon, or prenatal rancor. Kosawa compared the Oedipus complex and the Ajase complex as follows:

    "Freud’s Oedipus complex originates in a conflict involving the libido, with the son’s love for his mother and hatred for his father. The Ajase complex, on the other hand, concerns the more fundamental question of birth or origins."

    Kosawa further contended that whereas incestuous desire and patricide formed the core of the Oedipus complex, the Ajase complex centered on the themes of matricide and prenatal resentment.

    Two Types of Guilt and the Mother’s Forgiveness.

    The paper Kosawa originally submitted to Freud concerning the Ajase complex bore the title “Two Types of Guilt.” (“The Ajase Complex” was a subtitle.) In this paper, Kosawa
    asserted the following: When a child makes a mistake or does something wrong, he or she first experiences guilt as a fear of punishment. However, human beings have another sense of guilt, which is of a higher dimension than mere fear of punishment. This second type of guilt is experienced when the child who fears punishment is forgiven his or her wrongdoing.

    In terms of the Buddhist legend, Ajase suffered feelings of guilt when confronted by a minister with his desire to kill his mother. Shocked at his own contemplated matricide, he began to shake and became deathly ill. Idaike, however, forgave her son and nursed him devotedly. Under his mother’s care, Ajase experienced a more profound sense of guilt, one of heartfelt remorse.

    Kosawa termed this guilt resulting from forgiveness zangeshin or “repentance.” He emphasized the need to differentiate between repentance and the guilt related to punishment. This “repentance”-type guilt compares with Klein’s depressive/reparative guilt. The Ajase story may thus be viewed as depicting the transition from a punitive to a reparative type of guilt. (Kosawa may in fact have read Klein’s The Psycho-Analysis of Children before writing his thesis.)
    ちょう
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  17. #7097
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Isn't that just copying Eva?
    True, but FGO literally uses the same villian motivation twice, im pretty sure theres more than just dust of osiris outside of FGO, araya too.

  18. #7098
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Were Tomoe's parents bad before being driven insane by contemporary architecture?
    ah yes le corbusier is known to do that

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Isn't that just copying Eva?
    ding ding ding we have a winner!

    But seriously, you can ask that question of so much TM stuff. Can you guys help me make a list?
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  19. #7099
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    True, but FGO literally uses the same villian motivation twice, im pretty sure theres more than just dust of osiris outside of FGO, araya too.
    They have similar plans but the motivation is different. Dust of Osiris acts against the imminent destruction of Mankind and wants to preserve the information about it (perhaps for the benefit of future civilizations).

    Lion King deals with the already destroyed world and wants to create a museum of people as species.

    Zeus just decided that fighting for the Earth is not worth it and wants to leave the planet and resume its original mission; humanity will be preserved as records in his databanks ("you're not dead as long as someone remembers you" basically). That's his primary motivation, actually - this is why he summons Khaos in the end.

    Yes, there are some similarities but it's not like this is a flaw, to begin with.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; May 20th, 2020 at 07:29 AM.

  20. #7100
    Quote Originally Posted by aldeayeah View Post
    ah yes le corbusier is known to do that



    ding ding ding we have a winner!

    But seriously, you can ask that question of so much TM stuff. Can you guys help me make a list?
    Should it be a sub-section or seperate from 'Things that is just references', but Atlas is one big eva refernece, 3 super computers, a super weapon called longinus...

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