Technically was it even divine contruct, wasnt it more 'things not made by humans'.Originally Posted by Blastedspider
Hell what is the definition of DC
Technically was it even divine contruct, wasnt it more 'things not made by humans'.
Hell what is the definition of DC
Babylonia did not have that tho. He literally saw the future that there is no chance of beating Tiamat whatsoever (since she is immune to everything in Mesopotamia prior to dropping down the underworld), and that is when he completely changed his approach, actually using tactics to buy time for Chaldea - the wild card - to come and change the outcome. Even more, Tiamat wasn't even actually trying, she's trying to kill herself constantly, and he still could not win alone. And that was his most recent appearance. The "arrogant" card has not been used since FSN.
Eh that card has been definitely use in F/sf with the whole "lol who needs the key" that bite his ass in vol 5
That's a different writer tho. The even more recent Gil jobbing is to Karl in Extella Link and was captured to be used as mana battery (Higashide's writing).
Byegod's complaints are mostly towards Nasu's writing like FSN and CCC so I only mentioned Nasu stuffs.
Beside, I'm more talking about a case like versus Shirou, underestimating his opponent due to arrogance. SF is more that he did not expect the key could be used by a yandere goddess.
Gil got summoned in a random cave in the middle of nowhere. The key would only be a liability in the very off chance that he faced an enemy that knew about the GoB beforehand, was targetting Gilgamesh specifically enough to go look for the key, and was capable of using it. He was reasonable enough in not being worried about it.
To me, Gil jobbing is much less of an issue than him pulling an Ocelot (MGS) and feeling like an entire different character altogether in every other iteration that he's in. Initially in F/SN, he's this simple arrogant asshole who wants to marry Saber and/or watch the world burn. Not exactly the most complex character out there but it works and his actions and outcome remain relatively consistent throughout all 3 routes. Then we have Fate/Zero who portrays him as this wine sipping devilish mastermind who waxes philosophy and is seemingly very calm and calculated underneath his zasshu spewing demeanor (a portrayal which ufotable then tried to mimic for UBW as well...just to end up creating more plot holes and question marks). In FGO, he's now some great benevolent ruler that people look up to and who could do no wrong (but that's ok since he's super popular and all). Oh and he gets to have a newfound ability to immediately revive himself because the plot demands it and because fanservice.
he still did that against True Archer where he didn't take him seriously and used merodach instead EA,
Dunno, he's pretty different in each route IMO. Particularly HF.
Fate is the Saberfan Gil who mostly goes along with Kirei's plan.
UBW is more "I'm actively out to burn the world" and is at his most villanous.
HF is more "dude even I have standards" and is at his most heroic (as far as FSN goes)
Then FHA introduces a more sympathetic side of him, and the rest is history.
His villain characterization in FSN is kinda shallow and one-note (and gets demoted to comedic relief as soon as FHA), so it's just natural that they explore different avenues for his further roles.
This is a very natural evolution for popular villains in pop culture (a good example is Magneto from X-Men, who through the years has gone from mustache-twirling villain, to misguided fanatic, to antihero, to dark hero, to an outright messianic role, and back and forth again)
Last edited by aldeayeah; June 3rd, 2020 at 02:52 AM.
don't quote me on this
Not quite.
Ea is Gil's most valued treasure, one need to understand that. You don't want to whip out your big stick right away against an unknown enemy. That's called having a brain. Evaluate the enemies with your smaller attacks first then go for the big gun. Contrary to a lot of fan debates, "lul Ea" is not an instant win. It's not the end-all-be-all NP that will solve all problems against all of enemies Gil's facing. Alcides literally mocked Gil into pulling out Ea. Using it means the possibility of falling into the trap. Their next fight Gil actually fought seriously, aiming at the openings not fully covered by the pelt. And he was not losing to the point of having to pull out Ea like vs Shirou. Ishtar interfered at that point to give him the L.
There are only 2 instances that he pulled out Ea right away. One is versus Enkidu because they knew each other for so well that's just how they greet each other. The other time is when he shows up against Tiamat in the underworld, already holding Ea and ready to go. He's more serious than the anime version in that one scene.
Meanwhile back when fighting Shirou, he saw what Emiya could do, he also willingly let Shirou deploy UBW thinking he can deal with it. And THEN he's still reluctant to pull out Ea, and it cost him. None of the fights with Alcides had him facing similar situation as versus Shirou to the point that he must use Ea.
That's because the circumstances are different, just like how Shirou develops differently and obtains a distinct/contrasting answer in every subsequent route as well.
Having a simple and straightforward characterization doesn't necessarily imply that he's a bad villain though. Emperor Palpatine in the original trilogy is essentially that as well. He plays the part of a mustache-twirling bad guy but still manages to be memorable while fitting the role remarkably well.
FassGil when?!
The whole point is that creativity is the actual superweapon.
Makes me wonder if Sabers can use carbon fiber swords.
My main problem is the power levels invincibility bullshit. Like, even Marvel has a power bound past which even things like TOAA cannot stand against (Heart of the Universe). Nasu never established a "ultimate entity that can destroy literally everything I created, including Lostbelts, Parallel worlds and everything in Imaginary Space. When you go cosmic, you need a "ultimate reset button" entity that can say "ENOUGH!" and everyone dies.
Gilgamesh being hopeless against Tiamat only drives that point home. It almost makes me wonder what would happen if a Supermassive Black Hole devoured the SS. Those things bend spacetime itself, so presumably even History hax would vanish.
"The concept of omnipotent/almighty still cannot control everything on Earth" - Tesla, LB5.
That's Nasu's answer. Even if there is an actual omnipotent, almighty being above all, said being will still lose to some Earth being who is happen to "Not bound by that being's omnipotence", because Earth is beyond all that stuffs...I guess.
Umm... Why???
Seriously, one of the worst things about Marvel/DC is the constant resets so that nothing ever changes, if something does change it happens again slightly different in 3 issues, and also how would you like to re-read all the same plotlines again and again every reboot?
Fuck. The. Cosmic. Reset. Button. It's the laziest literary device ever.
Oh, he's great villain all right. But what I meant is, popular villains often drop part of their villainy when they are featured in new stories in roles closer to the protagonist side.
don't quote me on this
Ditto. This kind of one thing that invalidates everything gimmick is always the worst thing about DC/marvel books, damn it's so dumb. Not only that, having something or someone that could wipe away everything just shits on nasu's theme of 'Fuck yeah humanity, carving our own path!!' so much and just makes every work meaningless.
"An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"
I feel like that is because maniacal cackling evil old wizards are inherently entertaining tho
I can’t tell if this is sarcastic or serious given that most of your post did literally happen in the fate route.
I don’t know why you think he can’t have deliberate volleys of cherry picked items, block all incoming attacks with super god shields, bring out curses (what are command seals by the way) magic buffs, anti-phenomena things and even magic cast tools when we know from both what he’s done in canon, and also what is stated as stuff he could or would do.
Gate of Babylon is definitely the end all. It’s everything, it’s a culmination, and it’s what makes him, along with his special seeing, the absolute top of heroic spirits undisputedly.
Weren't those Hakuno's Command Spells from the start? He just gave back what he took.
No, what he did in Fate was bring out weapons with a bunch of different powers, and if you remember, he didn't manage to kill Saber.
I did say it has to be a thing. A physical object. It's a vault, it obviously doesn't have God Hand, it doesn't have Humanity's Treasure: A Cloud Of Cast Amplify Damage floating around in room #112.I don’t know why you think he can’t have deliberate volleys of cherry picked items, block all incoming attacks with super god shields, bring out curses (what are command seals by the way) magic buffs, anti-phenomena things and even magic cast tools when we know from both what he’s done in canon, and also what is stated as stuff he could or would do.
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Just to clarify, the stuff regarding God Hand according to UBW animation materials is:
Rather than because it's not a physical object."Your life, your legend, has been sublimated into a Noble Phantasm. It is only that kind of Noble Phantasm that I do not have. ---That is, I'm at a disadvantage."
We do also have cases where Gil has things like "lightning without form" and all that.
Don't have a horse in this race, but did want to add that to the pot.
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