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Thread: Unpopular TM opinions you have

  1. #11501
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    And that also ties into the problem of science to nasu just being magic with tech words at times
    Have you heard about Clarke's third law?

  2. #11502
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrikow View Post
    Imagine how many succubi were out of work after pornography became widespread
    I think it would go the other way, "Wait, so I just need to point this camera at the bed and I can eat and get money at the same time?" .

    Or if they go the dream route "I have no idea what a V-Tuber is, but a bunch of young men love them".
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  3. #11503
    Deadpan Dead People LegalLoliLover's Avatar
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    I already brought up the idea of a vampire V-Tuber in the TTRPG thread when we were talking about Vampire the Masquerade. Basically, a modern take of the Vampire Theater from Interview with the Vampire. Vampires pretending to be mortal pretending to be vampires.
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  4. #11504
    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    So the problem is that (a) science is portrayed as too much like magic, and yet, simultaneously (b) magic is portrayed as clearly superior. Is this right?
    Yeah, magecraft can do so many things that science cant, or science thinks as impossible (though of course science can be wrong even irl. but thats a far more indepth argument even if its interesting,)

    Like magecraft can bend time, science cant. cause and effect is a suggestion to magecraft at times. the only area that i guess is arguable is mass production. but as we see in lostbelts magic can be used on mass on a population so im not even sure that argument stands either

    But the inverse is the whole spiritron and other 'scifi' elements that use spiritron and a few other words to justify that shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Petrikow View Post
    Have you heard about Clarke's third law?
    Funny when nasu still makes a distinction between science and magecraft. At least to me the problem is it feels like nasu cant decide on 'science vs magic' and 'they become the same'.

    Also to slightly diverge, this is more a general bugbear with science in fiction, but it really does feel like a lot of people treat science purely in terms of "machinery" vs the many many many fields of science that are just as important but dont produce machinery or whatever. Like biology, geology, ect.

  5. #11505
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    So after all that the problem boils down to you not liking the representation of science in TM works. Correct?
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  6. #11506
    祖 Ancestor Sione's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Like magecraft can bend time, science cant.
    Says who?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...#Time_dilation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    cause and effect is a suggestion to Quantum Physics at times.
    So true

  7. #11507
    祖 Ancestor Kirishima's Avatar
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    See Byegod, I'm a physics student and I can tell you you're wrong. Not going to tell you why though, I'm lazy, just know you are.
    Last edited by Kirishima; August 26th, 2022 at 07:10 PM.

  8. #11508
    Just beat your enemy TomPen94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sione View Post
    Tbf, it isn't really that science bends time. Time Dilation is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.
    But we might one day get there if we manage to control and maintain the kinds of speeds where Time Dilation becomes noticeable at a human scale.

    So in the end the rethoric of "magecraft is science with flashy shortcuts" still applies. Big Up.

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    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    lol at kerry acting all cool with triple stagnate when you could just overdose on drugs instead
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  10. #11510
    「Fatalist Halophage」 Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomPen94 View Post
    Tbf, it isn't really that science does X. X is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.
    Something something, Atlas analyses the laws of the world to discover Magecraft rather than inventing it, this is not a hard binary dichotomy, something something.
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  11. #11511
    祖 Ancestor Temflakes403's Avatar
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    Science, at the very least analytical science, doesn't *do* anything. Representing science as a monolyth, as a culture, as a faith, is kinda fucking stupid. Science, for anyone that takes it seriously, is better described as the scientific method, a way to know things. That's all it is.
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    I get this vague feeling from your posts that you're looking down on people who don't share your view, which is what it is, but at least take a moment to snort some common sense between those hits of pretension.
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    My opinion is better than your opinion, so it isn't up for debate.
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    You seriously underestimate the human potential for wanting to fuck stuff, my dude.
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    Prententious killjoys with comically academic "critiques" are just as annoying as braindead gachoomers. This is the only valid horseshoe.
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  12. #11512
    夜属 Nightkin Tenshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    See Byegod, I'm a physics student and I cant tell you you're wrong. Not going to tell you why though, I'm lazy, just know you are.
    Kirishima has just featured my favorite moment of the week.
    Last edited by Tenshi; August 26th, 2022 at 09:49 PM.

  13. #11513
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors madarra's Avatar
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    Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

    Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

    JP readers, please feel free to add if there`s other characters "introducing themselves wrongly" like the latter two, cuz sometimes it gets hidden in translation like some of the KnK subs flying around translating Touko`s like as Magus as if its correcting a mistake and not a purposeful choice

  14. #11514
    Knight of Excess HumanComplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

    Extending a hand, saving people is magic.
    Aoko and fake magicians co's introduction probably has less to do with the magic of saving, but just a simple, abridged term to easily associate magecraft with whatever muggle's idea of magic is. Although, the wonder that comes from them saving others is pretty magical in itself; this is one of those cases where reading deeper into it doesn't end in a huge contrivance, it's a simple, nice underlying theme.

  15. #11515
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    Extending a hand, saving people is magic.
    Nah, Friendship is Magic.
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  16. #11516
    祖 Ancestor Kirishima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
    Kirishima has just featured my favorite moment of the week.
    I'm here all week.

    Also to manipulate time, you just need to be a fast boy, to manipulate space, you just need to be a fat boy, it's simple really.

  17. #11517
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

    Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

    JP readers, please feel free to add if there`s other characters "introducing themselves wrongly" like the latter two, cuz sometimes it gets hidden in translation like some of the KnK subs flying around translating Touko`s like as Magus as if its correcting a mistake and not a purposeful choice
    Quote Originally Posted by HumanComplex View Post
    Aoko and fake magicians co's introduction probably has less to do with the magic of saving, but just a simple, abridged term to easily associate magecraft with whatever muggle's idea of magic is. Although, the wonder that comes from them saving others is pretty magical in itself; this is one of those cases where reading deeper into it doesn't end in a huge contrivance, it's a simple, nice underlying theme.
    Yes, it's talked about in Knk

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    “Speaking of which, Nii-san. A wizard and a mage are different things. How can you not know about that when you work for Touko-san?”
    Now that I think about it, Touko-san does sometimes say something like that. Something along the lines of how it's convenient to advertise yourself as a wizard rather than a magician as it presents the kind of image that you want, but that those are the titles of two completely different things, or something like that.
    “Ah, I did hear that before. But there wasn't much difference that I could see. They both use suspicious magic.”
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  18. #11518
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomPen94 View Post
    Tbf, it isn't really that science bends time. Time Dilation is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.
    But we might one day get there if we manage to control and maintain the kinds of speeds where Time Dilation becomes noticeable at a human scale.

    So in the end the rethoric of "magecraft is science with flashy shortcuts" still applies. Big Up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Temflakes403 View Post
    Science, at the very least analytical science, doesn't *do* anything. Representing science as a monolyth, as a culture, as a faith, is kinda fucking stupid. Science, for anyone that takes it seriously, is better described as the scientific method, a way to know things. That's all it is.
    You are both wrong.
    The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case), TM takes science through an anthropological lens.
    In that respect, humans do use science to "create" facts and shape our reality.
    Last edited by You; August 27th, 2022 at 04:33 AM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  19. #11519
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    high five for latourposting, but use the monoskop link, it's safer
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  20. #11520
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    You are both wrong.
    The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case), TM takes science through an anthropological lens.
    In that respect, humans do use science to "create" facts and shape our reality.
    It does make it awkward though that science would make the supernatural weaker when faith gives the supernatural power, and the more you know and understand a concept, the more faith you can put into it, but the logic in this universe is the more you peel away mystery, the weaker something becomes.
    Its like its designed natural elements to degrade each other with no real purpose for doing so.

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