Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Menwearpink]

Hard to imagine FS to ever break away from their formula. Even in Elden Ring where one might expect to spot some GRRM touches in the narratives, it turns out to be not that much different from usual Soulsborne formula with customizable player avatar who had nothing to do with the plot at first in a post-apocalyptic world, rather than a political intrigue where you might raise armies and build reputations with higher-ups. Was expecting something like Sekiro given the plenty dialogue it has compared to usual Soulsborne, but no dice.

I think expecting Elden Ring to not be a soulslike is a bit of a silly thing.

The real question is Armored Core 6 when. From Soft will always be making souls-like since there's a massive market for it, and it sure is their bread and butter by now. But I hope and expect them to make some new things sometime. Well, it's not like Souls games are the only thing they make and Sekiro and Elden are pretty different even then in ways.

[Herod]

Nasu hasn't made a new, main line piece of fiction in over 20 years. It's all been remakes of something dating as far back as his high school years.

DDD?

[Nanaya]

Pray that leak is actually AC6.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I think expecting Elden Ring to not be a soulslike is a bit of a silly thing.

The real question is Armored Core 6 when. From Soft will always be making souls-like since there's a massive market for it, and it sure is their bread and butter by now. But I hope and expect them to make some new things sometime. Well, it's not like Souls games are the only thing they make and Sekiro and Elden are pretty different even then in ways.

When you got a doorstopper author involved and have them marketed prominently, people will start expecting the kind of plot they would come up with for the game, and how the storyline goes in relation to said author's style. GRRM's writing is always on the low side of fantasy with its character interactions surrounding political strife in some land, not a world tree thingy in a post-apocalyptic state where the characters are isolated in their respective region with no visible dialogue towards each other aside with the PC who comes to them, a textbook Soulsborne style. It feels quite a waste to not play up GRRM's strength more in the narrative other than for worldbuildings and backstories. How would Ranni interact with other demigods? What if Ranni sent out her subordinates to aid the Tarnished in their quest? How would Malenia react to Mohg's deeds had she sought Miquella out and learnt what happened? What if Morgott met Godfrey before the Tarnished's confrontation? How talkative would the Tarnished be if they had Alexander accompany them? etc etc. So many potentially interesting interactions could happen.

But the game sells nonetheless, even better than FS's other Soulslike games I heard, so I guess just having GRRM's name on it helps boost the sales, regardless of what people had expected from it.

[Altima of the Gates]

The TM Fandom if Nasu spent time making Tsukihime 2 instead of a Remake.

Who says he isn't? The guy is eternally unsatisfied with how his works initially turn out(there have already been hints of a FSN Remake for example).
I'd imagine that before he even tries to touch a sequel, he wants to finish this remake first, because, and Petri mentioned it before, there may just be things he wants to put out first before moving on, as it would spoil the idea he is coming up for the next thing.
The guy seems very OCD like that. FGO has introduced or explained so many concepts that were only really hinted at before, so I'd imagine his brain is a vast messed up labyrinth only he sees the next steps he wants to take. Of course, while he is constantly rewriting and being influenced by various parties on that road.

[Kamera]

I've said it before- a series of games focused on heroes during their life. In the Sekiro/God of War style, not the Souls style- customised and unique weapon usage for each hero needs to be a thing, rather than Souls flailing with the character barely understanding how stab sward in big knight man. Actually, you don't need to stop at a combat style game.

Imagine Artoria parrying the swings of black knight Vortigern, only for him to go full apeshit, reveal he has another healthbar and it's ten times the size of the previous one, he roars a storm into existence with lightning constantly rumbling overhead, and Excalibur's light going dark, and each swing of his dragon claws claps you across courtyards and through castle walls unless you manage to parry them.

Imagine a VN/Telltale-style game, building up the warm, happy memories of Georgios and his adoptive(?) mother the witch, only eventually realising the woman who raised him is evil, needing to use the gifts she gave him to kill her.

Imagine the roguelike Inception-style mindfuck game you could play with Scheherezade, needing to keep the sultan's attention on yourself and your sister, not boring him enough that he decides to offhandedly execute you, but also not interesting him enough he wants to keep you, balancing the politics of the royal palace, and needing to keep all the plates spinning, going one level up out of the story every time he gets suspicious or horny or bored.

Dantes, putting together what he needs to escape prison, escaping to his island, and then enacting his revenge on each person in turn.

Charlemagne gathering his paladins and going on their adventures in a... as much as it pains me to type this... JRPG turn-based tactical game. Maybe even in a Battle Moon Wars style.

The possibilities are endless, pick your favourite character and go go go.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Even outside the Servant side of things -- Imagine an Urban Fantasy RPG where you play as a customizable mage in the Clock Tower as you climb the Rank of the Magus Association, solving Cases (quests) and doing your own magus things. Imagine a Bloodborne-esque Action game featuring the 27 DAAs. Imagine a mecha shooter game in the Land of Steel. The possibilities are literally endless. The Type Moon setting has near limitless inspirations for potentially fun games. The problem is that Nasu lacks ambition to expand it beyond Remakes and Grail War LNs.

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Well to be fair, TM was relatively poor before FGO's massive success, so there might not be much room for ambition then. I just hope they will have these ambitions in the future.

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I also find it really tragic that Extra is only TM game has proper sequels.

[Byegod]

Okay, defense for loreposting.

Thank you, it's all a delicate balance and a hydra.

And i agree lore can serve as a device to make a story or idea richer, like reality marbles can serve as a very easy and great way to demonstrate a view or metaphor for the world.

Delicate balance, flavor, vs lore vs depth. I feel like you hit a point on remakes, If i had to put it into words it feels like the setting gets larger but core elements remain unexplored?

[fumei]

Okay, defense for loreposting.

I think the prevailing mental image of loreposting and most that really indulge in it is the fat r/lotr goblin that will completely ignore any sort of thematic and prosaic devices to take the most literal interpretation of the work possible (in this context, literal within the portrayed world of the setting), treating it like alternate history and doing the classic Gibsonian otaku hunger for information, in spite of the information in question's possible worth.

However, I don't think this has to be the only way we can look at lore and those that focus on it. Because the strength of lore, I feel, is crystallizing and concentrating the power of subtext into a niche with no other equal, strengthening the main narrative with narratives of its own. Just as much as one can be enamored with, moved by, and invested in the main plot, its themes, characters, and strengths, all of this underlying information comes together to make its own contexts and places and things and times and beings to get invested in and to draw conclusions from. And this frees up a lot of potential, because there are many narrative avenues that would not be possible without this context; essentially reinventing the old technique of using a title and any other sort of multimedium materials to give the reader a frame of reference for the work in question, but doing so with entire narratives. I'm saying narrative a lot.

And with Nasu especially, I don't think you can use the argument of disregarding plot details and handwaving away larger references as shallow, maybe successful attempts at giving the impression of unpresent depth to a work. I mean, look at all the interviews where he goes on and on about lore tidbits, and how it all connects, and all the glossaries he makes, and all the focus he gives to this larger picture he has been building for over two decades. Could you really accuse anyone of becoming errouneously invested in it, of disregarding the literary meaning for made up shnaggels?

However, I think even Byegod acknowledges the fact that lore for lore's sake doesn't have the desired effect in this context. It doesn't have to be smoke and mirrors, but giving it all concrete backings will do it no good if it's not a foundation for a story. Yet I don't think even he was defending making lore books to justify the redditor slimy goblin brain. So, I imagine he, and by extension I because I'm tired of these supositions, comes to the stand still: Nasu hasn't made a new, main line piece of fiction in over 20 years. It's all been remakes of something dating as far back as his high school years. But, he always keeps introducing more lore, that we become attached to, for the simple reason that they're there in works we enjoy, and even more circumstances specific to the condition of Nasu fandomhood. We can't just explore these with easy to bang out lore books because then that takes the spice away, and yet the guy won't make new shit.

I don't think it's that unreasonable to be a bit frustrated.

This ended up being a defense of Byegod's attitude as well as lore posting, but so be it. I think lore posting is a facet with more validity than the evaluation I see pervade this thread, and I don't think byegod was fundamentally wrong in being frustrated with Nasu's output over the years. This doesn't mean he was right in everything as well, but when even the guy has admitted he's quite shite at communicating, I think he deserves a break.

I don't think anyone particularly disagrees with the first points you make (or at the very least, they shouldn't), but the point you make about "lack of new mainline works" and its correlation to lore attachment is something I don't agree with. More specifically, because I think that does exemplify consumption of lore for lore's sake, and that if you have become so disinterested with current works because they're not "new" that all you can do is consume lore for lore's sake, then you have already become the goblin. That's my whole point. That current stories can't just be enjoyed, it either needs to be something completely new because obviously everything that exists now is total dogshit, or you just stick around for crumbs of lore that you can cobble together in your mind to get some sort of dopamine hit from imagining these stories that could've been. And that focus is detrimental, is the point I'm trying to get across. Lore should never exist for lore's sake alone. You said it yourself, it's there to strengthen the narrative, but if you only find the lore as separated and dissected pieces enjoyable, rather than finding enjoyment in the complete narrative and all that comes with it, then it really just makes me wonder what the point is.

Also, just for clarity, the big paragraph of mine about this wasn't directed at Byegod, hence the little clarifier that it was for the posts on previous pages. If anything it would have been directed more towards Sione who was the one actually leaning more into "just give me the lore" extreme. My argument with Byegod revolved around the need to have everything "revealed" all at once, that hints at a larger world or foreshadowing for a plot point that won't be resolved until a completely different story cannot exist within the stories, and how that's just not a good way to look at it, in my opinion. Because, and I guess this brings us full circle, at that point you have already become the goblin and you have effectively been consumed by your thirst for lore for lore's sake, rather than just looking at the vehicle which transports it.

Loreposting, as it were, is not that, though. Good loreposting will shed light on vague or perhaps poorly explained aspects of the actually relevant story, in a way that once you've consumed that lore, you can now better appreciate and understand the story at hand. Something like dumping all the info about the Fourth is not that, because it doesn't add anything to any story.

[Byegod]

I suppose then it gets into the discussion on what good lore is vs what is superfluous lore and how it should be communicated. And also what is important lore to fans and nasu.

[Ideofago]

Well yeah but then there's the fact that Nasu won't translate fucking shit, so even disconsidering all of the changes that I think are worse than the original, I can't even read the fucking thing to know what's better.
But then there's the Mahoyo TL and I want to punch Nasu in the dick for not letting me doompost properly. Goddamn that japanese eggplant.

[asterism42]

mushroom

[Ideofago]

he's both

[Byegod]

Well yeah but then there's the fact that Nasu won't translate fucking shit, so even disconsidering all of the changes that I think are worse than the original, I can't even read the fucking thing to know what's better.
But then there's the Mahoyo TL and I want to punch Nasu in the dick for not letting me doompost properly. Goddamn that japanese eggplant.

Would be nice if nasu n co compiled all the stuff from interviews into a book or something ngl

[Kamera]

Would be nice if nasu n co compiled all the stuff from interviews into a book or something ngl

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_interviews

[Gohyuinshee]

Yeah, pretty much this.

Even outside the Servant side of things -- Imagine an Urban Fantasy RPG where you play as a customizable mage in the Clock Tower as you climb the Rank of the Magus Association, solving Cases (quests) and doing your own magus things. Imagine a Bloodborne-esque Action game featuring the 27 DAAs. Imagine a mecha shooter game in the Land of Steel. The possibilities are literally endless. The Type Moon setting has near limitless inspirations for potentially fun games. The problem is that Nasu lacks ambition to expand it beyond Remakes and Grail War LNs.

Frankly I'll just be happy with a Type Moon All Star brawl with a good system, either like Melty Blood or an improved Unlimited Codes.

[Kamera]

Frankly I'll just be happy with a Type Moon All Star brawl with a good system, either like Melty Blood or an improved Unlimited Codes.

Bonus point if it's by Arcsys

[JetKinen]

I just think Nasu is actually trapped in his own worlds and lore and he knows it.
For example Nasu wants to write some wacky sci fi story about space aliens and moons and whatever and then he puts Fate/ in front of it and bullshits some haphazardly historical figure because it sells.

Nasu would be much happier as a writer if his psycho chuuni lore nonsense didn't become as popular among the nerds, but he can't say goodbye to this universe cuz it prints money and the ability to write new stories, even if they are still trapped in those worlds. That's the real Catch 22

[Mattias]

As evidenced by his last two works, Fate/Mahoutsukai no Yoru and Fate/Tsukihime:Re.

[Random]

It's not strictly a bad thing for a writer to have locked themselves in a specific world. I've been in a specific world for ten years, and the scale and polish feels to me like an accomplishment. After a while, it aggregates on top of itself the same way your own personality and worldview does, and becomes a better fit for your tastes than any other setting would. You see it all the time in people with a passion project.

That said, Nasu is no Kamachi Kazuma, so the frustration probably lies in the part where he has to get it out of his brain and onto a document.

[Byegod]

Isnt kamachi a fucking machine when it comes to writing?

plus he is doing regular releases of a single story vs what nasu does where there is always a alt timeline 'sequel' or dreamworld or something like that