Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Dullahan]

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;

Our meddling intellect

Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:—

We murder to dissect.

[Takashi]

It does make it awkward though that science would make the supernatural weaker when faith gives the supernatural power, and the more you know and understand a concept, the more faith you can put into it, but the logic in this universe is the more you peel away mystery, the weaker something becomes.
Its like its designed natural elements to degrade each other with no real purpose for doing so.

No the thing is it's both. More you understand more established and stronger it becomes. On the other hand the demerit there is that the magecraft loses its purpose.
Or something along the lines.
Kadoc explained his magecraft something along the lines

- - - Updated - - -

The foundation becomes stronger but the magecraft loses its purpose.

[warellis]

You are both wrong. The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case)

What are the issues you have with how Sanda shows magic?

[You]

What are the issues you have with how Sanda shows magic?

He copies and pastes the Miwa summary without synthesizing anything out of it. Its worse when he does that with the Nasu notes.
For instance the Eldefelt application for jewel magecraft is the circulation of value that means you circulate the value. <- what does this actually mean. How does this relate to the Eldefelt.

[warellis]

I see your point.

[Kamera]

For instance the Eldefelt application for jewel magecraft is the circulation of value that means you circulate the value. <- what does this actually mean.

Capital Vol. 1 Chapter 4, in magecraft form

[Byegod]

See Byegod, I'm a physics student and I can tell you you're wrong. Not going to tell you why though, I'm lazy, just know you are.

Ah yes, time for "Ill vaguely insult you in a way to try and bait you so you get in trouble" attempt number??? who knows at this fucking point.

Dude can you fucking stop, prove me wrong then instead of wasting my time. If i'm wrong tell me how then, i like learning. I was referring to human science replicating time dilation and such, not as a phenomena in of itself like with blackholes, and dont do snide pedantic bullshit either like "oh we all bend time slightly on a non-obseravble level" or how the earth causes minor time dilation of like 0.007 milliseconds or some shit.

So after all that the problem boils down to you not liking the representation of science in TM works. Correct?

I can dislike both how he represents science and how he represents magic at the same time. especially when its insisted upon by mats and mouthpiecing when it shown time and time again to be wrong

I see regardless of what character nasu mouthpieces through, I think the evidence shows magic is superior.

I dislike how nasu treats science as a singular "force" instead of a methodology. I dislike how nasu just throws the word spiritron everywhere as the excuse for "sci-fi" while also having it be magic at the sametime in regards to everything.

Science, at the very least analytical science, doesn't *do* anything. Representing science as a monolyth, as a culture, as a faith, is kinda fucking stupid. Science, for anyone that takes it seriously, is better described as the scientific method, a way to know things. That's all it is.

I mean by description magecraft would fall under science itself? Clearly there is research and refinement. But nasu clearly see's different when he places them in opposition to each other.

[Dullahan]

Well just write your own fanfic. Simple as.

edit: Actually no, not simple as.

especially when its insisted upon by mats and mouthpiecing when it shown time and time again to be wrong

Is this, in fact, true? In what respect are the mats and "mouthpieces" (rinspeak) "shown" - emphasis "shown" - to be wrong? What is being "shown" when you say that this is "shown"?

I dislike how nasu treats science as a singular "force" instead of a methodology

It is not obvious to me that that it can't be treated as both. "Instead" implying mutual exclusivity. If your problem is that the "method" of science is not depicted - i.e. that nasu does not write about "Scientists at work", or failing that some "Science-user" like the median protagonist of a "Rationalist" fic - the simple answer is that he isn't interested in them. Is this a failure on Nasu's part? I do not think it necessarily is. There is a great deal of room for description and discussion of what "science" (more precisely "technology" and more precisely still the world-historical dispersion of the techno-industrial apparatus) has "done" to the world (yes, "done", which implies it being agentic, i.e. a "force" in the sense you mean - this attribution of agency is "objectively" (footnote etc.) wrong but in a certain sense "phenomenologically" true) without necessarily describing the actual making of the "science" itself.

I dislike how nasu just throws the word spiritron everywhere as the excuse for "sci-fi" while also having it be magic at the sametime in regards to everything.

The word spiritron is - stupid, among other things - but it seems to me rather a symptom of the precise opposite of what you are complaining about. Is usage of the word spiritron (or a lot of other terminology nasu likes, especially when moon cell is involved) an "excuse" for sci-fi? Is "sci-fi" actually being accomplished here? I do not think so. I think some of the trappings of sci-fi are borrowed. Space. Artificial intelligences. And so on. But this does not a sci-fi story make. Star Wars does this. Star Wars is not a sci-fi story. It is not the case that in moon cell (etc.) Nasu is treating science as a kind of magic, and writing a "sci-fi" story based on that premise. He is, rather, treating magic(magecraft) - not precisely as a kind of technology, but as something like or akin to technology. In terms of technology. A specifically modern kind of technology. And the tendency to do this more and more is I think one of the most prominent elements of Nasu's development, which the increased use of words like "spiritron" merely indexes. He has not "started writing sci-fi" and does not need an "excuse" for that. Nasu has come to think of magic more and more in terms of technology.

[Blastedspider]

If i'm wrong tell me how then, i like learning.

"Science" (scientific worldview, see what You posted on a previous page) is superior to Magecraft on a fundamental level because scientific knowledge displaces Magical Theories; once something (fire, electricity, human body) has been studied properly its supernatural potency (Mystery) is diminished.

On the practical level, however, technology (applied science, scientific inventions etc.) isn't always superior to magecraft. It has its strong points (usually convenience and availiability) but at the current level certain there are things which can only be accomplished through arcane means (F/SN prologue, Rin monologue).

Eventually though technology is supposed to evolve to the point of rendering the distinction between the two largely meaningless (see. Mooncell and Extra world in general, Twelve Machine Gods, Shirou comparing Jewel Sword to something that came from the far future etc.).

[Kamera]

In an alternate timeline, Nasu fully committed to being a Science Fiction writer like he always wanted to be, and we got an Angel Notes gacha instead of FGO.

[Mattias]

A-Rays are basically Furries. Each 'Singularity' being about tracking down an Aristoteles and killing it. It would probably do pretty well.

[warellis]

A-Rays are basically Furries. Each 'Singularity' being about tracking down an Aristoteles and killing it. It would probably do pretty well.

Are they furries or are they more of a kemonomimi type of character?

[SeiKeo]

A-Rays are basically Furries. Each 'Singularity' being about tracking down an Aristoteles and killing it. It would probably do pretty well.

Haven't you been around for long enough to know this is a vintage meme

[Mattias]

Which bit, A-Rays are furries, or Notes being popular?

[TomPen94]

Yes.

[madarra]

Are they furries or are they more of a kemonomimi type of character?

unknown, the rando beastman is just refered to as a beast man. so i dont think Nasu thought about the furry scale while writing.

the doctor is called fish-faced, not gill-faced... Then again, if this every actually gets made it`ll be anime. so it`ll probably be Kemonomimi for the women and actual furry for the men.

[Ideofago]

You are both wrong.
The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case), TM takes science through an anthropological lens.
In that respect, humans do use science to "create" facts and shape our reality.

That's precisely what I was calling stupid.

[Kamera]

ideally Nasu should release Aristotle and Isaac Newton servant and have them explain that so called magic and science are both inferior to Philosophy

[Altima of the Gates]

In an alternate timeline, Nasu fully committed to being a Science Fiction writer like he always wanted to be

Has he and Kamachi met, I dunno if they've had an author sleepover together yet or not.

[Ideofago]

ideally Nasu should release Aristotle and Isaac Newton servant and have them explain that so called magic and science are both inferior to Philosophy

based