The whole point of that, besides of course freeing the Hebrews from enslavement, is also putting the Pharaoh in his place (i.e. beneath God). A lesson Ozy clearly never learned.
The whole point of that, besides of course freeing the Hebrews from enslavement, is also putting the Pharaoh in his place (i.e. beneath God). A lesson Ozy clearly never learned.
His "place" should have been putting down a crazy rival sibling, like so:Originally Posted by Zork Knight
He just didn't have the stomach to do it.
No, I meant that he shouldn't even wasted time using dialogue with Moses. Moses should have ended up like Amakusa or Hong Xiuquan... What did our lovely Demon King of the Sixth Heaven say about birds who refuse to sing? Now, replace singing with building pyramids.
I'm still not sure if you mean in the story or in real life. In the story Moses literally had God (capital G) on his side and so things really weren't going to go well for Pharaoh trying to oppose him no matter what he did. If you mean how it would've gone in real life it's a pointless question because the story isn't history and was never intended to be read that way. In the story itself as I said Pharaoh did try to violently stop Moses from escaping at the end and got his whole army smote for the trouble. No reason to think he would've faired any better trying that earlier...
Well, stuff like Makai Tensho tends to mix actual history, as well as the legend, though. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there is any such equivalent for the Taiping Rebellion, but I digress. Oh, the Bible does have stories with "Champions of God" being killed, but the book always spins it to say that they were "martyrs" who allowed themselves to be killed on purpose, like in those comedies where someone screws up epically and responds with "I meant to do that".
I'm not exactly sure how one spins Moses as a terrorist in the first place. Aside from the initial act of murder that prompted his self imposed exile for a while, all he did was tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go. Unless you think he was personally responsible for bringing the ten plagues on Egypt, but the story seems pretty clear to me that he was just the messenger.
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Yeah, 10 Plagues. "Free my people, or God will kill your children" sounds like a terrorist ultimatum to me.
Moses didn't ask for the plagues. God decided to show the Pharaoh who makes the world go 'round.
It would sound like a terrorist ultimatum if Moses had any power whatsoever to stop it from happening.
If I say "get off the train tracks, or that train is going to hit you," am I threatening you?
If I say "evacuate New Orleans, or Katrina will kill tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people," am I a terrorist?
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Oh, did Amakusa not say something similar to the Tokugawa? Did Hong Xiuquan not say something similar to the Qing Empire?
As far as I can recall, there was no rebellion or war in the Exodus? Just God smiting Egypt over and over until the Pharaoh yielded, and the one extra time when he went back on his word.
Obviously, Yahweh was trying to elicit a certain reaction. However, aside from his own good nature, there was literally nothing stopping Ozy from reacting in the other manner. The manner prescribed by Nobu, of course. Essentially, if you put Kaiba in Scrooge's situation, he reacts in a very different way:
As for the smiting thing, again, it's hard for me to find a Taiping Rebellion example, due to China's odd policies, regarding historical drama, but Makai Tensho directly shows Japan suffering from 10 Plagues-like symptoms after Amakusa's resurrection.
Last edited by LegalLoliLover; April 20th, 2020 at 04:11 PM.
Why are you trying to draw equivalences between the Book of Exodus and Makai Tensho in the first place? What even is your point? This is the weirdest line of discussion I've lurked on for a while.
I don't know anything about Amakusa's or Hong Xiuquan's stories to comment on them, but it seems pretty irrelevant to me.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that the primary conflict in the opening of the Exodus story is not Moses vs Pharaoh, it's God vs Pharaoh. Moses had no power to cause or prevent any of the plagues that Egypt suffered through in the story. Calling him a terrorist in this case seems like a textbook example of shooting the messenger.
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I would personally go further from messenger and more into communicant. Oftentimes, communicants are literally representatives of God's power on Earth, like a tentacle is a representative of the main body of some creature.
It started from talking about Star Gate using Egyptian gods as easy villains. Now that I think about it, they also use Japanese gods as Goa'uld, as well. Similarly, in Dungeons & Dragons, pantheons styled after the Egyptian ones are consider "evil, false gods", while religions styled after Christianity are considered "good".
Except that's not the case at all? The only "power" Moses himself showed was the staff snek, and that was still a miracle from God, to compare his d(ivinity) with that of the Egyptian gods.
Yeah now I know you're just full of bs
Like I said, essentially, a tentacle showing the power of the main body.
What, is my D&D knowledge outdated again?
I don't think it ever was factual, considering even all the way back to AD&D Deities and Demigods all RL pantheons were divided among the alignment chart like any other.
There is that verse in Exodus where iirc says something like God decided to 'harden' Pharaoh's heart, presumably to incite the kind of reaction to justify the plagues.
Well at least from what I remembered from Sunday School. I'm happy to be corrected on further nuances on that.
But in the grand scheme of fictional adaptations, there's really no point in rehashing Exodus when you have the films The Ten Commandments and The Prince of Egypt. Pretty definitive and anything else seems a waste of time like Ridley Scott's version.
What I read is that 'God did x' in those days was just a poetic way of saying 'x happened'. So saying 'God hardened Pharaoh's heart' doesn't necessarily mean He forced the pharaoh to do anything. Of course from a Judaic worldview God presumably does have a hand in everything that happens, but that's getting into more general problem of evil territory.
Last edited by RoydGolden; April 20th, 2020 at 07:22 PM.
It's funny you'd speak of false gods in the context of D&D, because check this out, in 5e DM's guide you get the list of generic gods to use which are just regular mythological pantheons. All goes well until you get to the Celtic Pantheon which for some reason is just Caesar's scribbles inexplicably treated as the real thing. So you came up with the idea of being a Priest of Cernunnos which sounds like the most metal thing ever, only to find out that for nature deity you have Silvanus who is really just Dionysos, so your metal horned hunter god dude is instead incredibly gay. Sure love being a Celt.
This is reminiscent of something which is actually related to Type-Moon, unlike D&D.
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