Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Ideofago]

Why do you go to the lenghts of complaining about multiverses to actually complain about mecha greek gods for the umpteenth time

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Double as my own unpopular opinion: The part of the fun in exploring Nasuverse is figuring out which clicks with which from other continuities, and what it means for greater narratives, and then able to come up with answers that you're satisfied the most.

TLDR : Stuff like Mecha greek gods should've been a element from a alternate reality and never should have been canon to the past history of greek stuff at all

This one is indeed alternate reality in the form of LB5. People of the present world in Nasuverse recognize the Pantheon just like IRL people do. Their Aletheian bodies have long been destroyed by Sefar before more people start to know and worship them, allowing them to exist as Divine Spirits.

[Byegod]

To tem :

It was just a obvious element that could be shoved into a alternate reality, its a really good example plus i really fucking hate mecha greek gods

And i do find it annoying that a lot of lore isnt from one world but a whole sleuth of alternate timelines and such, or how shit that shouldnt be the same is (waver being el melloi in apocrypha timeline is one thing that irks me)

Double as my own unpopular opinion: The part of the fun in exploring Nasuverse is figuring out which clicks with which from other continuities, and what it means for greater narratives, and then able to come up with answers that you're satisfied the most.



This one is indeed alternate reality in the form of LB5. People of the present world in Nasuverse recognize the Pantheon just like IRL people do. Their Aletheian bodies have long been destroyed by Sefar before more people start to know and worship them, allowing them to exist as Divine Spirits.

What I mean is that it shouldnt be canon at all to PHH, the LB5 should've just brought it in from a far parallel world

And regardless of the explanation it blatantly means nasu is gonna just focus on the mecha shit and the explanation totatlly pisses down on so much interesting shit, it seems the titans arent really that much of a thing, sefar caused the titanomachy and sefar is one of the worst elements of the setting

[Ideofago]

You disliking it =/= good example

[Byegod]

I mean ive seen plenty of other people disliking it on this forum alone m8

[Ideofago]

And?

[Byegod]

What would you use then?

[Kirishima]

The only reason we have alternate timelines and universes is so the writers can explore different themes and settings that would otherwise be incompatible with what was previously stablished, while keeping most of the overall concepts and worldbuilding intact. You should just think of it from the perspective of an artist, writer: I want to explore different themes, keep my basic concepts of the overall universe intact. If so, I need to create a different kind of setting (universe, timeline) that will be compatible with what I want to write.

It's easy to see this with the Tsukihime and Fate split. They're antagonistic to each other in a few ways, so it only makes sense to split it. One is a story about a world that can't protect itself against vampires and abnormalities, and people have to pick up the slack and defend themselves, as the weaker ones. One is a story about how humans achieved the pinnacle of Heroic Spirit summoning and how we can learn from the past to move forward and not stagnate. It's a more hopeful story in terms of how it sees humanity. You see why a split makes sense.

TM is focused on stories about a few people and how they interact with the world around them first and foremost, the bigger settings and timeline and stuff come as a consequence of that.

Also mecha gods are kino and based, in fact.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

What I mean is that it shouldnt be canon at all to PHH, the LB5 should've just brought it in from a far parallel world

And regardless of the explanation it blatantly means nasu is gonna just focus on the mecha shit and the explanation totatlly pisses down on so much interesting shit, it seems the titans arent really that much of a thing, sefar caused the titanomachy and sefar is one of the worst elements of the setting

Yeah, okay.

[Ideofago]

What would you use then?

The fucking mecha gods

[Tobias]

FYI the desire to find out “what’s canon” or “what really happened” is something of a western fixation. The reason why it seems like nasu and co evade the question is because they don’t understand why people care. Most of fate’s primary payment base doesn’t.

[Byegod]

I see mecha gods as a waste of greek mythology

They turned prometheus into a fucking hand mod joke for christs sake

Also I think the tsukihime fate split is a problem invented by nasu himself, there really was no inconsistencies, before the remake and nasu creating lore FOR there to be inconsistencies, remember the old mats implying they were in the same world multiple times?

Plus kara no kyoukai a very tonally similar work to tsukihime is somehow still in the Fate branch of timelines apparently

and hell isnt there a interview i keep seeing people post around of the other writers being blindsided by the split?

FYI the desire to find out “what’s canon” or “what really happened” is something of a western fixation. The reason why it seems like nasu and co evade the question is because they don’t understand why people care. Most of fate’s primary payment base doesn’t.

I've heard this before but ive never seen a source, and actions of jp writers strike me as that being wrong

[Mattias]

Why do people care so much about the gods being robot spaceships, but not Xiang Yu or Danzo being ancient robots?

[Kirishima]

If you don't get why the split is there, you really haven't understood any of the fundamentals of the works. This fixation on "canon" and "timeline" stuff just misses the point entirely. It's a weird fixation on having everything be a neat little thing in a single continuity and timeline that I honestly don't get. The split is thematical and I'm sure people have already explained this a million times.

Also, I see no point in trying to be faithfully accurate to greek mythology. This isn't a story about the greeks. Greek mythos has existed for millennia and everyone knows it at this point. A writer's themes and creativity does not need to be limited to what has been established and done a billion times in the past. IF you do want to criticize it, I do not think "it didn't accurately portray my vision of the greek mythology" is that strong of a criticism. You should point to what has been done and how it could be better or improved or why it missed the mark.

Why do people care so much about the gods being robot spaceships, but not Xiang Yu or Danzo being ancient robots?

Xiang Yu makes so much sense when you read Fengshen and suddenly theres Xians growing extra heads and arms like it's natural. If Qin was copying the mechanism that they use it only makes sense he'd go that far in creating Xiang.

[Byegod]

I actually do to some extent

But if i had to make a guess, its less... overtaking so to speak

Plus to make a guess, one a lot of us are westerners and two Xian stuff always had a degree of transhumanism so its not as obnoxious

[Comun]

I've heard this before but ive never seen a source, and actions of jp writers strike me as that being wrong

The source is the lack of a Japanese word, be it in dictionaries or fandom spaces, that matches our meaning of the word canon 1:1.

[Byegod]

If you don't get why the split is there, you really haven't understood any of the fundamentals of the works. This fixation on "canon" and "timeline" stuff just misses the point entirely. It's a weird fixation on having everything be a neat little thing in a single continuity and timeline that I honestly don't get. The split is thematical and I'm sure people have already explained this a million times.

Also, I see no point in trying to be faithfully accurate to greek mythology. This isn't a story about the greeks. Greek mythos has existed for millennia and everyone knows it at this point. A writer's themes and creativity does not need to be limited to what has been established and done a billion times in the past. IF you do want to criticize it, I do not think "it didn't accurately portray my vision of the greek mythology" is that strong of a criticism. You should point to what has been done and how it could be better or improved or why it missed the mark.



Xiang Yu makes so much sense when you read Fengshen and suddenly theres Xians growing extra heads and arms like it's natural. If Qin was copying the mechanism that they use it only makes sense he'd go that far in creating Xiang.

I mean If you want my opinion on some themes, I've said them before on fate but ill try and reiterate

But the story on humanity's greatness and stagnation falls flat in the greater picture of the works (and i do feel there is a greater narrative or theme nasu wants to ramble on about)

But ill first define something :

The pro humanity view in fate is something i see defined through several things, for example ill just use these three as common examples.

1.Such as the idea that magic and tech are comparable and one will become superior
2. Breaking free of gods
3. And the past, non humans/past beings not able to rule over humans

On gods : From worldbuilding itself it seems most gods dont fight humanity at all when the age ends, they flat out in essence give it to them, then you got things like many gods interfering or still doing plans in the modern age
(Odin, Christian gods ring plan, ammy being able to make a fucking beast candidate in 1908)

On magic vs tech : Magic due to powercreep and in general is flat out superior to technology which nasu typically seems to link to the whole pro-humanity part of fate falls flat when you have things that break physics on its back yet im supposed to think the two are comparable?
I mean just from one standpoint of "which can reach x effect quicker" magecraft typically wins

Plus when now you got all these beings who can ignore the arrow of time and just hang out in magic land it doesnt seem like magic is shit, but humans.

Hell mecha gods break the point where they get to have there cake and eat it too!

Time and time again do gods bail out humans

Then on ruling over humanity :

And extra where a lot of this shit comes from utterly breaks its own theme apart with extella with someone defined as a person of a past and a servant ruling over the mooncell and explicitly are gonna rule it while humanity flees there

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And on interpretation or IRL myths, that's just ignoring the reality dude for many fans

Did you forget the time the authors got harassed by people due to Qin in the short story?

Plus using mythological figures creates a expectation for certain elements, i mean people have in the past complained bout characters just having shit from other servants, or the MANY MANY times people complain about skadi-scathath and the mutilation of norse myth on this very forum

Then there is the fact that utilizing myths nasu does also utilizes the lore and stories behind them, and the friction between them and the OC elements, To me the explanation in 5.1 smacked of not knowing how to connect the two ideas together

Like they lost all there mecha stuff after becoming divine spirits yet the explanation for odysseus NP is that it involved athena or whatever using there authority... to make the horse mecha?

Then you have the meta-focus on OC elements, i dont think we will get non mecha stuff mostly now cause of the OC lore.

The source is the lack of a Japanese word, be it in dictionaries or fandom spaces, that matches our meaning of the word canon 1:1.

That doesnt mean much does it? english lacks lots of words for some concepts doesnt mean it doesnt exist in expectations.

[Dullahan]

Nasu is tonally and thematically inconsistent, yes.

[Hakuno]

sefar caused the titanomachy

The Gigantomachy, and just because Gigas was a bunrei of her iirc.

Also, that Greek Gods were originally mechas is cool

[Byegod]

But do you understand why people dislike them?