Unpopular TM opinions you have

[pinetree]

On a more real note, TM has a real problem with the way it dishes out content. It isn't even the VNs per se. It's the amount of homework you have to do to get everything.

That's not a real problem at all. I haven't read a single TM work that actually required me to have knowledge of anything else that came from another one, except for when they're explicitly connected. Maybe Strange Fake is an exception? Maybe. But that's an entirely different conversation.
Everything you actually need to understand any story is within the story, WANTING to understand everything setting-wise is different and obviously requires you to be aware of most stuff in the setting.

Case in point: People enjoy and understand FSN (VN and anime) without understanding the intricacies of mage society and magecraft mechanics because it's irrelevant.

[Nanaya]

It's all to market something people wouldn't otherwise give a fuck about because if they're interested in one thing, some individuals will suddenly feel the need to see the whole picture. Even if you are only getting one small puzzle piece that isn't relevant to the story you originally care about so much as the setting's background mechanics. This is part of why I like the world split between Tsukihime and Fate. You still have general concept crossover that can add to your appreciation but with the different focus how much it matters is relatively even smaller. You have minor things like encyclopedia entries, interviews, afterwords, references/callbacks like to MBAACC or cameos. Though it's only a matter of time until you have to play some obscure mobile puzzle game to find out the backstory of some character that's offhandedly referenced in some Church Novel spinoff connected vaguely to the establishment of the Dark Six ritual but has no actual relevance to the story where that shit will actually(never) appear in. Imagine how messy things will be in another 20 years.

[TomPen94]

That's not a real problem at all. I haven't read a single TM work that actually required me to have knowledge of anything else that came from another one, except for when they're explicitly connected. Maybe Strange Fake is an exception? Maybe. But that's an entirely different conversation.
Everything you actually need to understand any story is within the story, WANTING to understand everything setting-wise is different and obviously requires you to be aware of most stuff in the setting.

Case in point: People enjoy and understand FSN (VN and anime) without understanding the intricacies of mage society and magecraft mechanics because it's irrelevant.

This is true, but remember the context of my initial comment, it was about lore videos.
Why do you think ppl watch lore videos? Cuz they want to know it. That's where I was coming from.
I also referred to it as "getting into TM", which I don't consider the same as "geting into FSN" or even Fate in general.

[Dartz]

It's all to market something people wouldn't otherwise give a fuck about because if they're interested in one thing, some individuals will suddenly feel the need to see the whole picture. Even if you are only getting one small puzzle piece that isn't relevant to the story you originally care about so much as the setting's background mechanics. This is part of why I like the world split between Tsukihime and Fate. You still have general concept crossover that can add to your appreciation but with the different focus how much it matters is relatively even smaller. You have minor things like encyclopedia entries, interviews, afterwords, references/callbacks like to MBAACC or cameos. Though it's only a matter of time until you have to play some obscure mobile puzzle game to find out the backstory of some character that's offhandedly referenced in some Church Novel spinoff connected vaguely to the establishment of the Dark Six ritual but has no actual relevance to the story where that shit will actually(never) appear in. Imagine how messy things will be in another 20 years.

Can confirm, this is why I've played and read most Fate media, much to my chagrin. They have some information that applies to the general TM worldview. I'm missing stuff otherwise.

[pinetree]

This is true, but remember the context of my initial comment, it was about lore videos.
Why do you think ppl watch lore videos? Cuz they want to know it. That's where I was coming from.
I also referred to it as "getting into TM", which I don't consider the same as "geting into FSN" or even Fate in general.

I know, but I'm saying this is not a problem TM has created, nor is it a problem at all.
I also think the lore videos you guys are talking about suck but they'd exist regardless of how deep or shallow TM lore was just by virtue of it being popular. Everyone wants to be a "real fan" in the known of the ins and outs of the thing they care about, but not everyone cares enough to put the time in.

Even if we start looking at standalone works outside franchises, there's always that "ending EXPLAINED" video.

[You]

This is true, but remember the context of my initial comment, it was about lore videos.
Why do you think ppl watch lore videos? .

To confirm their biases or Australian voice that's as smooth as butter.

[Byegod]

I never said they was the beacon of morality, I said that they don't just kill innocents for the hell of it because there are actual consequences of it.
People take that to somehow mean "Mages can kill innocents freely with a slap on the wrist".

Strange fake literally as ruby text for monster above magi or something along thosel ines

plus apologizing for a terrible experiemnt is called not magi like in a recent snippet

Its not something that comes from nowhere. Plus wasnt it basically said in case files that waver IS a exception to most of this stuff?

[Altima of the Gates]

That's not a real problem at all. I haven't read a single TM work that actually required me to have knowledge of anything else that came from another one, except for when they're explicitly connected. Maybe Strange Fake is an exception? Maybe. But that's an entirely different conversation.
Everything you actually need to understand any story is within the story, WANTING to understand everything setting-wise is different and obviously requires you to be aware of most stuff in the setting.

Case in point: People enjoy and understand FSN (VN and anime) without understanding the intricacies of mage society and magecraft mechanics because it's irrelevant.

Past people who just like seeing copious amounts of edge and bloodshed, people who are interested in lore usually want to have a good grasp of the setting however irrelevant it may seem, whether for roleplay, fanfics, or just discussion in general.
You're definitely right that if all you cared about is the characters of a particular show you can get by with just watching, although I think people just want to feel involved because they hear there is so much more to things, so they get excited to learn more, but feel pressured to "study"so you get everything in conversations.
So reference sheets, Wikias, I mean, you can even say the fuyuki archive way back then while not essential, did help so we don't have quite the same questions over and over.

Since the setting has built upon itself slowly for years, most of us who have been there since forever won't get the feeling of how others see us who picked things up from extra content like jokes and materials because before FGO, that was the drip fed content we had beyond some big release(comic, VN, heck even fighting games for lore).
Just imagine if someone nueralized all your TM experience up to this point and you started fresh, with no knowledge of your resources. I'd still ingest content, because I am a crazy person who poured over things even with my ass Japanese reading skill, but casuals? They need the cliff notes, I have seen people who'll react to FSN animes and ask questions of really obvious things. Its not wrong that you have to pay attention so you get context sometimes.
And you can really tell where you have someone who has that capacity and who doesn't and Jesus christ, some newer fans just don't.

@You: You joke, but you're more on the mark than you might realize, haha.

[Byegod]

It"s a cognitive bias called the curse of knowledge.

[Gehennahem]

Can confirm, this is why I've played and read most Fate media, much to my chagrin. They have some information that applies to the general TM worldview. I'm missing stuff otherwise.

I have to agree with this. It's easy to miss some major details if you say don't realize that the Primordial Sea is connected to the Mud of the Holy Grail is actually supposed to be a major revelation and it was mentioned since Tsukihime of all places or if you really want to know about the Quantum Time Locks or how the actual Universal Mechanics of the Nasuverse work, you gotta play Fate/Extella since the other titles only hint at it(Which I can absolutely see why people may be confusing on how the Tsukihime/Stay Night Routes actually work).

Or even the singular basis for how Mages operate, Servants are and so on and so forth. I don't have a problem with people using Lore Videos because yeah, it can be a headache especially if someone gets something wrong and parrot it as the truth(or try and water it down so it can make "better sense"). What I don't like is when people make Lore Videos, actually get shit wrong and then the person uses that as Word of God and get everything wrong.

[Comun]

I get the QTL part, but I don't think missing that the Angra-Tiamat-Nrvnqsr connection affects the experience in any way.

[Gehennahem]

Strange fake literally as ruby text for monster above magi or something along thosel ines

Yeah I don't know where the hell you got that from because last time I checked, Mages aren't monsters despite what a decent amount of the fanbase believes. Mages look out for themselves, yes and can some be absolute bastards if given the opportunity? Yes... but this is literally missing that The Clock Tower or the Atlas Institute will find and murder your ass if you try and be a monster pointblank even if you do cover your tracks perfectly, we have known this since Norikata for pete' sake.

plus apologizing for a terrible experiemnt is called not magi like in a recent snippet

...How does that go against my point of them "not being the beacons of morality" that I just said earlier? Mages usually do what it takes to try and get to the Root or to hit their goals... except they are also heavily punished for going after innocents for experiments and outwardly killing them rather than erasing their minds. They have no issues with Mages or Families doing that shit on their own because they basically signed up for that life and unless you have the ability to actually leave, that's the breaks.

Its not something that comes from nowhere. Plus wasnt it basically said in case files that waver IS a exception to most of this stuff?

I never said it came out of nowhere, I don't even understand the heck you are talking about, I feel you are completely misunderstanding my point. Mages can kill other Mages freely because that's literally what they signed up for and nothing will happen to you... however, trying to straight up kill a civilian will get the Clock Tower on your ass even if you cover it up and nothing is truly said(As you pointed out in Case Files Episode 3, a High Ranking Clock Tower Member literally lost his position and everything simply because the number of deaths that happened was due to him, no one actually knew of the Phantasmals he created until Waver checked it out and told the Clock Tower).

And finally, Waver isn't an exception, the hell? Waver literally has a Magus mindset just like everyone else, the key difference is that he sucks so hard, he has to make up for the difference, which is why he's more like the modern day Sherlock Holmes(which nearly got him killed by Luvia even for her Families' benefit and why many Mages want him dead and he's stuck as Lord for life).

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I get the QTL part, but I don't think missing that the Angra-Tiamat-Nrvnqsr connection affects the experience in any way.

It's more like a long bit of "OOOOOOH" if you played Tsukihime or read it and then seen Tiamat in FGO and have Kingu actually explain it deal. It's kinda hard for me to bring it up otherwise but yeah, it's not as big as the QTL stuff.

[Takashi]

Last time in Kara no kyoukai. Nasu just straight up said killing magi's is not same as killing humans. Hilariously enough.

[asterism42]

Norikata was targeted because he was sealing designated. Plus turning an entire island into vampires is the sort of thing that people notice.

[Dartz]

I have to agree with this. It's easy to miss some major details if you say don't realize that the Primordial Sea is connected to the Mud of the Holy Grail is actually supposed to be a major revelation and it was mentioned since Tsukihime of all places or if you really want to know about the Quantum Time Locks or how the actual Universal Mechanics of the Nasuverse work, you gotta play Fate/Extella since the other titles only hint at it(Which I can absolutely see why people may be confusing on how the Tsukihime/Stay Night Routes actually work).

Or even the singular basis for how Mages operate, Servants are and so on and so forth. I don't have a problem with people using Lore Videos because yeah, it can be a headache especially if someone gets something wrong and parrot it as the truth(or try and water it down so it can make "better sense"). What I don't like is when people make Lore Videos, actually get shit wrong and then the person uses that as Word of God and get everything wrong.

Yeah though the previous Tsukihime continuity is likely in the bin for a number of reasons. One of which is the fact Tsukihime (mainly Melty) is heavily referenced by multiple characters as being a doomed world without even the possibility of turning things around, which is in direct contrast to the Remake continuity where you explicitly have the idea that there are infinite possibilities and the future isn't set in stone. No hints of a doomed future either.

And yeah. If I want to touch up my lore knowledge I'd look up comments either here or on other forums where people are actually citing references for their claims.

[warellis]

Yeah though the previous Tsukihime continuity is likely in the bin for a number of reasons. One of which is the fact Tsukihime (mainly Melty) is heavily referenced by multiple characters as being a doomed world without even the possibility of turning things around, which is in direct contrast to the Remake continuity where you explicitly have the idea that there are infinite possibilities and the future isn't set in stone. No hints of a doomed future either.

And yeah. If I want to touch up my lore knowledge I'd look up comments either here or on other forums where people are actually citing references for their claims.

In what way was the old Tsukihime implied to be doomed in any manner?

[Tepanyakigo]

In what way was the old Tsukihime implied to be doomed in any manner?

The whole TATARI shenanigans and Dust of Osiris thing probably... TATARI going mad because of finding no solution whatsoever for the survival of humanity as far as I know

[Dartz]

It's all over all the Melty iterations, starting with the first Hollogram Summer.
But it's basically some catastrophe that could only be avoided with some mystery called the Sixth. We think it might be related to timeline pruning, based on stuff like this: https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...=1#post2564142

Point is it's quite literally a 180 change compared to some of the claims for the Remake continuity. I don't think you could even consolidate both continuities.

[Delastogos]

So, Nasu basically turned the original timeline into a doomed world ready to be pruned, but he still uses it to tease Remake stuff?

[Comun]

Point is it's quite literally a 180 change compared to some of the claims for the Remake continuity. I don't think you could even consolidate both continuities.

Is it really? You're talking about the core premise of Atlas and Atlas is one thing that made it through to Extra, FGO, and both El-Melloi series without any major changes. The multiple possibilities are presented as an effective way to extend the planet's life but that in no way implies the planet is eternal.

See where Nasu's mind is at in Avalon le Fae, which was written roughly at the same time as Blue Glass Moon. You have a doomed world there, and Morgan was framed as admirable for extending that world's life 2 millenia past its expiration date. Then we have the whole collapse arc, where the heroes are framed as admirable for extending the world's for a couple more hours, maybe even just minutes.

Atlas, Zelretch, and Chaldea are in the same line of thought. The end is inevitable but the good people will do what they must to buy everyone time. Just because we'll die, it doesn't mean we should accept an early death.