2Deep4Me or "How I learned to stop thinking and enjoy the headcanon"

[Meh]

I was thinking today a thing: that we have all manners of threads for the ancillaries to the story, a few for their protagonists and basically none for the stories themselves.
That left me confused, especially when the TM fandom makes a thing of throwing around the big words of "theme", "message", "symbol" and so on like they were used used condoms.

Hence this thread. But not, of course, to discuss the basic level of reading. I don't think we precisely need a circlejerk about how "F/SN routes examine the possibility of heroism in increasingly cynical ways".


In other words, here's the principle: put here your ideas, your interpretations or even just the impressions that the reading left on you. Was Tohno's carpe diem for you an allusion to modern materialism and anxiety? Was Ryougi's identity complex a stand-in for Japanese postwar national re-identification?

or did you only notice something vaguely phallocentric about shirou


Anyway that's it, with one recommendation and one rule:
1)Be as original as you can be, it will totally make your e-peen bigger.
2)You'll still need to defend your thesis, otherwise the e-peen is going to stay just like your RL one.

　

[Kirby]

inb4 fate route and sexism

But IIRC, Dulla made post about murder in KnK being a stand-in for sexual activity, and how the story itself is about reinforcing traditional values or something like that. It was cool to read. brb

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tadaa

Obviously, the entire 'murder' thing with Ryougi is an extended metaphor for repressed sexuality as a result of growing up in a very prudish, traditional family. In MSP1, Shiki/SHIKI manifests a tatemae/honne dichotomy so extreme as to come across as different personalities entirely. Caught in the conflict between the expectations placed on her behaviour and her growing-to-be-overwhelming attraction to Kokutou, she eventually has a psychotic break and tries to rape him:

Fortunately, 'Shiki', who embodies the values she's had beaten into her since childhood, wrests control and immediately tries to commit suicide out of shame. The entire rest of the story is an internal conflict centered around sex addiction. MEoDP are a metaphor for constant intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature (I had a joke about Mystic Eyes of 'D' Perception, but I've got more class than that, don't I?) The conflict is between the traditional values espoused by her grandfather ('you can only kill one person in your life' can here be interpreted as 'monogamy 4 lyfe, otherwise you're a useless whore') and her own desire to slut it up as much as possible. The latter manifests through her persistent attempts to lose her virginity to a string of casual, self-destructive relationships with:

A runaway street kid she just met one night...

...a much older guy who's into some kinky bondage shit and only wants her for her body...

...and some loser drug dealer she once knew from school. Eventually, however, with Kokutou's support she's able to overcome her addiction in order to be the pure waifu she knew she always had it in her to be. tl;dr - murder is sex, Ryougi is a repressed nympho, and Kara no Kyoukai is a paean to traditional Japanese gender roles. Search your feelings, you know this to be true.

[SeiKeo]

Was Ryougi's identity complex a stand-in for Japanese postwar national re-identification?

Correct.

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And everyone who reads the various routes of Fate/Stay as having some sort of equivalence and not being thematically linear leading to a conclusion in HF is totally wrong.

[Kirby]

Correct.\

someone explain

[Kotonoha]

And everyone who reads the various routes of Fate/Stay as having some sort of equivalence and not being thematically linear leading to a conclusion in HF is totally wrong.

Take that, Nasu.

[Kirby]

something something death of the author

also, just noticed that it can be abbreviated as "dota". huh

[Kotonoha]

something something death of the author

also, just noticed that it can be abbreviated as "dota". huh

ummmm excuse me, but

[SeiKeo]

Are you so against considering the author's viewpoint as to ignore what even the VN says, about the first route making a question that gets two different answers?

Pretty much. Order actually matters.

someone explain

It's actually my idea so I guess I'll see if I can find an old post because I swear I've made at least a short version of that post on BL proper.

[Kirby]

Pretty much. Order actually matters.

Does the fact that Last Episode comes after HF have any significance regarding its theme?

inb4 its fanfiction

[Dullahan]

Is this the right place for in-depth character analysis, then? 'cause I have a theory about Lio and Tomoe being foils to one another I've been wanting to put into words for a while.

[Kirby]

Post it.

[Lycodrake]

Is this the right place for in-depth character analysis, then? 'cause I have a theory about Lio and Tomoe being foils to one another I've been wanting to put into words for a while.

Dullahan theories are best theories.

[Dullahan]

It's like 3 am here and I need to sleep. I'll do it later. I need time to find all the passages in the original runes that support me.

[SeiKeo]

Does the fact that Last Episode comes after HF have any significance regarding its theme?

inb4 its fanfiction

Depends on if you actually want to treat it as part of Fate proper. I think it makes more sense to think about what it is without LE and what it is with LE than trying to pretend there can only be one version of Fate and then arguing over what it should consist of.

[Mcjon01]

I think Saber is cute and sometiems Rin makes me feel all doki doki. But I think the girls in Tsukihime are pretty cute too. I honestly don't know where you guys are getting all this stuff, it wasn't in my reading of the works at all.

[Kirby]

Depends on if you actually want to treat it as part of Fate proper. I think it makes more sense to think about what it is without LE and what it is with LE than trying to pretend there can only be one version of Fate and then arguing over what it should consist of.

So if we were to say Fate includes LE, would the fact that it comes only at the very end affect the theme in any significant way?

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I think Saber is cute and sometiems Rin makes me feel all doki doki. But I think the girls in Tsukihime are pretty cute too. I honestly don't know where you guys are getting all this stuff, it wasn't in my reading of the works at all.

who makes you feel more doki doki: saber or rin?

[Mcjon01]

who makes you feel more doki doki: saber or rin?

Both at once.

[Cruor]

Random bit (its just a thought I had when I seen the 2deep4me thing) but, I don't understand the concept of concepts in Nasuverse like at all.

Its so abstract you see. I mean, literally just from looking at my latest posts, I can't even begin to explain the Unified Language without fucking babble. Then there's shit like Ries' scripture with its power of 'Ruin' and how it prevents her from being digested despite the shield obviously being unable to defend her entire body. Or yeah, that argument a few days ago where someone asked if Rider can just say 'I'm over here' to cause Perseus who was looking at a mirror to freeze (which doesn't work because mirror concepts).

Then we got everything to do with the MEoDP and the 'lol cut concepts'. Like jesus fuck what does that even mean. Even the fuyuki dictionary article on concepts is babble.

Concept
概念 - Gainen
The soul. The driving word in Kinoko works. Concepts, rules, and beliefs are what drive and even shape the universe.

[Kirby]

My guess was that it just mean most immaterial things. Or something

[SeiKeo]

So if we were to say Fate includes LE, would the fact that it comes only at the very end affect the theme in any significant way?

Depends on what you think of the theme in the first place, though it almost certainly should.