Unpopular TM opinions you have

[TheSkipRow]

Wasn't the quote about fighting power though?

Wouldn't her so-called omnipotence nullify that interpretation though? Like, why can she only fight defensively if she's omnipotent? She would just think someone out of existence. The whole quote feels pointless anyway since KnK VoidShiki wouldn't fight a Servant in the first place, and if she did why the heck would she only fight normally and not use her supposed omnipotence?

[Dullahan]

you are still not thinking correctly. here is a hint. in knk epilogue [void] offers to heal kokutou's eye, and he declines. you must read this scene with the understanding that she knew he would decline. why then did she ask?

[asterism42]

because it's polite to offer

[TheSkipRow]

you are still not thinking correctly. here is a hint. in knk epilogue [void] offers to heal kokutou's eye, and he declines. you must read this scene with the understanding that she knew he would decline. why then did she ask?

Good question. Why?

[Dullahan]

that is one interpretation, but it is uninteresting.

[Mcjon01]

you are still not thinking correctly. here is a hint. in knk epilogue [void] offers to heal kokutou's eye, and he declines. you must read this scene with the understanding that she knew he would decline. why then did she ask?

Because she also knew she would ask?

[the god of world-0]

So he could decline? It's not about her, she is an outsider, it's about Kokutou and his decisions.

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At least i think.

[Dullahan]

Because she also knew she would ask?

getting closer

[Herod]

you are still not thinking correctly. here is a hint. in knk epilogue [void] offers to heal kokutou's eye, and he declines. you must read this scene with the understanding that she knew he would decline. why then did she ask?

Because she is just a cogwheel in a completely deterministic universe. She can't avoid to ask.

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To quote Doctor Manhattan, she is "just a puppet who can see the strings."

[Lily Emilio]

Speaking of which... how the heck is Archetype Earth "more powerful" than Void? Nasu put her above Void one time in terms of power, but that makes no sense to me. Void is connected to the Root, yeah? Why is the Root of existence or whatever less powerful than a planet? How can you be "omnipotent" and still lose?

Lostbelt 5 explained this. It's entirely depends on whether it's actually omnipotent, in other words, actually 全能 (zennou) instead of 万能 (bannou), because both of these can mean omnipotent, but they have different implications. 万能 is "can do many many many many things but not everything, but the amount of things you can do are so many that it's close to being able to do all things". Meanwhile 全能 is "can do literally any and everything in existence". LB Zeus claimed to be literally omnipotent (全能), however there are clear evidences that he can't do everything, so he is actually omnipotent in the 万能 context.

If you apply that to Ryougi, being the vessel of the Root she is technically 全能 because that's what the concept is, but in reality she is just 万能, whether due to the limitation of a human vessel or she chose to be that way is not clear.

As for why the planet might be more powerful, Tesla had a thought in LB5 that "Omnipotence (全能) as a concept still cannot control every being on Earth". So...yeah, even if you're literally omnipotent in every sense of that word, you might still lose to something on Earth.

[Herod]

Just to be clear, I really hope you are not going in a "because the author is making her saying so!" direction, because personally I find this type of metanarrative analysis incredibly overdone and dull.

[Kamera]

any attempt to attribute omnipotence to anything but Almighty God ultimately is doomed to sounds retarded

[Dullahan]

consider: She makes the offer to Kokutou only because she knows he'll decline it. Put otherwise - it is because Kokutou declines it, that the offer is made at all. It's not about [void] at all. Nothing you hear in epilogue is 'about' [void]. 'She' is not talking about 'herself'. It's all about Kokutou. It is all put there for him. For his ears only. The WORLD (of epilogue) is his REPRESENTATION. Kokutou is not talking to a 'person'. There is no-one else there at all. There is no-one else who 'decides' anything, to use power, omnipotent or not, to do anything. There is no will and no action and no decision outside his. The decision is all his. The decision he makes - to decline [ ]'s offer to heal his eye, to return the injury he got in msp2 to nothing - is what Kokutou is. It is his 'Origin' in precisely the sense you've been told to think about it throughout KnK. The decision Kokutou makes in epilogue is the single impulse which originally diverges from pure nothingness ([ ]) which produces his entire life. Remember the other question she asks him?

[...]あなたは今日よりもっと楽しい明日がほしくないの？」 「......ああ、今だって楽しいからね。それで十分だって、思えるんだ」

Spontaneous symmetry-breaking. For your purposes there were only two possibilities. Generally considered to be the more likely was that she appeared to you in this way, i.e. her appearance to you was in some way contingent on your own faculties of apperception – not, it must be clarified, in the anthropomorphising sense which imparted a will that chooses an appearance you are, so to speak, comfortable with, but rather in the sense that every particularity of her appearance to you was a working-out of something immanent to the way your own consciousness organised its perceptions of the world. Or, put another way, the reason she manifested in the way she did was nothing to do with her, allowing even that anything could be 'to do' with her, which it could not – but rather entirely to do with you. The latter and more intriguing possibility, which was less an alternative to the former than it was a potential corollary, was that her appearance to you was not exhausted by its particular characteristics but rather encompassed the universality of your experience: to wit, that the entire universe as you perceived it was a mere epiphenomenon, an externality, of her particular appearance to you. She appeared to you, and in every meaningful sense this appearance was all that existed; the encounter was not a dreamlike interlude in the continuum of the everyday...rather it was the everyday, the world in its worldliness, that was a dream the antecedent encounter engendered simply and for no other reason than to contain itself.

[fumei]

Lostbelt 5 explained this. It's entirely depends on whether it's actually omnipotent, in other words, actually 全能 (zennou) instead of 万能 (bannou), because both of these can mean omnipotent, but they have different implications. 万能 is "can do many many many many things but not everything, but the amount of things you can do are so many that it's close to being able to do all things". Meanwhile 全能 is "can do literally any and everything in existence". LB Zeus claimed to be literally omnipotent (全能), however there are clear evidences that he can't do everything, so he is actually omnipotent in the 万能 context.

If you apply that to Ryougi, being the vessel of the Root she is technically 全能 because that's what the concept is, but in reality she is just 万能, whether due to the limitation of a human vessel or she chose to be that way is not clear.

As for why the planet might be more powerful, Tesla had a thought in LB5 that "Omnipotence (全能) as a concept still cannot control every being on Earth". So...yeah, even if you're literally omnipotent in every sense of that word, you might still lose to something on Earth.

I like this. Way more than that crack explanation based on the ahnenerbe drama cd.

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consider: She makes the offer to Kokutou only because she knows he'll decline it. Put otherwise - it is because Kokutou declines it, that the offer is made at all. It's not about [void] at all. Nothing you hear in epilogue is 'about' [void]. 'She' is not talking about 'herself'. It's all about Kokutou. It is all put there for him. For his ears only. The WORLD (of epilogue) is his REPRESENTATION. Kokutou is not talking to a 'person'. There is no-one else there at all. There is no-one else who 'decides' anything, to use power, omnipotent or not, to do anything. There is no will and no action and no decision outside his. The decision is all his. The decision he makes - to decline [ ]'s offer to heal his eye, to return the injury he got in msp2 to nothing - is what Kokutou is. It is his 'Origin' in precisely the sense you've been told to think about it throughout KnK. The decision Kokutou makes in epilogue is the single impulse which originally diverges from pure nothingness ([ ]) which produces his entire life. Remember the other question she asks him?

I like this too.

[Byegod]

I mean so is akiha's bloodline, even shiki and SHIKI at least have a lot of it as partial inborn potential barring MEODP

[TheSkipRow]

consider: She makes the offer to Kokutou only because she knows he'll decline it. Put otherwise - it is because Kokutou declines it, that the offer is made at all. It's not about [void] at all. Nothing you hear in epilogue is 'about' [void]. 'She' is not talking about 'herself'. It's all about Kokutou. It is all put there for him. For his ears only. The WORLD (of epilogue) is his REPRESENTATION. Kokutou is not talking to a 'person'. There is no-one else there at all. There is no-one else who 'decides' anything, to use power, omnipotent or not, to do anything. There is no will and no action and no decision outside his. The decision is all his. The decision he makes - to decline [ ]'s offer to heal his eye, to return the injury he got in msp2 to nothing - is what Kokutou is. It is his 'Origin' in precisely the sense you've been told to think about it throughout KnK. The decision Kokutou makes in epilogue is the single impulse which originally diverges from pure nothingness ([ ]) which produces his entire life. Remember the other question she asks him?

Bro, I love your explanations but you're killing me with that last line. Can you please be our teacher here and feed us the information? Given the replies it looks like no one is on the same wavelenght with you here. And I'm also not sure I completely understand. Yes, that is a thematic (or metaphoric? My english is not that great) reason for the epilogue, but what about in-universe? The way you explain it sounds like you're saying that there is no actual Void Shiki. Can you dumb it down for me a bit?

[Lily Emilio]

Given the replies it looks like no one is on the same wavelenght with you here.

It's not that.

I literally gave you the in-universe explanation of why a supposely omnipotent being might not be literally omnipotent base on recent information explained in FGO LB5, because you were confused why a supposely omnipotent being can lose in a fight. The answer is simple: "omnipotence" have nuances to it, cuz that's how Nasu love his Japanese wordplays.

Dullahan OTOH answered base on KnK.

Basically I gave you an infodump by Nasu and the writer in charge of LB5 to explain and set up for all omnipotent beings in the future to get their asses kicked because omnipotence is not always literal, while Dullahan used intepretation base on just what was presented in KnK.

[SeiKeo]

Speaking of which... how the heck is Archetype Earth "more powerful" than Void?

Because she's the top in that relationship.

[TheSkipRow]

It's not that.

I literally gave you the in-universe explanation of why a supposely omnipotent being might not be literally omnipotent base on recent information explained in FGO LB5, because you were confused why a supposely omnipotent being can lose in a fight. The answer is simple: "omnipotence" have nuances to it, cuz that's how Nasu love his Japanese wordplays.

Dullahan OTOH answered base on KnK.

Basically I gave you an infodump by Nasu and the writer in charge of LB5 to explain and set up for all omnipotent beings in the future to get their asses kicked because omnipotence is not always literal, while Dullahan used intepretation base on just what was presented in KnK.

I understand that, I'm just asking for more of his take because honestly I never looked at it the way he does. I guess it doesn't help that I never read the novels (and I'm not sure how good cokesakto's translation is, but since everyone calls it fanfiction I guess not very).

Sometimes I feel like I need to read more stuff to properly understand what Nasu is saying in one of his works. For example, Carl Jung is very relevant to the whole Dark Sakura stuff. Hell, Carl Jung is relevant to a lot of things.

Such as:

Archetype – a concept "borrowed" from anthropology to denote supposedly universal and recurring mental images or themes. Jung's definitions of archetypes varied over time and have been the subject of debate as to their usefulness.

Shadow – the repressed, therefore unknown, aspects of the personality including those often considered to be negative

Anima – the contrasexual aspect of a man's psyche, his inner personal feminine conceived both as a complex and an archetypal image


Animus – the contrasexual aspect of a woman's psyche, her inner personal masculine conceived both as a complex and an archetypal image

[Zork Knight]

Hmmmmm Animusphere huh