Unpopular TM opinions you have

[Petrikow]

And that also ties into the problem of science to nasu just being magic with tech words at times

Have you heard about Clarke's third law?

[Mattias]

Imagine how many succubi were out of work after pornography became widespread

I think it would go the other way, "Wait, so I just need to point this camera at the bed and I can eat and get money at the same time?" .

Or if they go the dream route "I have no idea what a V-Tuber is, but a bunch of young men love them".

[LegalLoliLover]

I already brought up the idea of a vampire V-Tuber in the TTRPG thread when we were talking about Vampire the Masquerade. Basically, a modern take of the Vampire Theater from Interview with the Vampire. Vampires pretending to be mortal pretending to be vampires.

[Byegod]

So the problem is that (a) science is portrayed as too much like magic, and yet, simultaneously (b) magic is portrayed as clearly superior. Is this right?

Yeah, magecraft can do so many things that science cant, or science thinks as impossible (though of course science can be wrong even irl. but thats a far more indepth argument even if its interesting,)

Like magecraft can bend time, science cant. cause and effect is a suggestion to magecraft at times. the only area that i guess is arguable is mass production. but as we see in lostbelts magic can be used on mass on a population so im not even sure that argument stands either

But the inverse is the whole spiritron and other 'scifi' elements that use spiritron and a few other words to justify that shit.

Have you heard about Clarke's third law?

Funny when nasu still makes a distinction between science and magecraft. At least to me the problem is it feels like nasu cant decide on 'science vs magic' and 'they become the same'.

Also to slightly diverge, this is more a general bugbear with science in fiction, but it really does feel like a lot of people treat science purely in terms of "machinery" vs the many many many fields of science that are just as important but dont produce machinery or whatever. Like biology, geology, ect.

[Dullahan]

So after all that the problem boils down to you not liking the representation of science in TM works. Correct?

[Kamera]

Like magecraft can bend time, science cant.

Says who?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...#Time_dilation

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cause and effect is a suggestion to Quantum Physics at times.

So true

[Kirishima]

See Byegod, I'm a physics student and I can tell you you're wrong. Not going to tell you why though, I'm lazy, just know you are.

[TomPen94]

Says who?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...#Time_dilation

Tbf, it isn't really that science bends time. Time Dilation is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.
But we might one day get there if we manage to control and maintain the kinds of speeds where Time Dilation becomes noticeable at a human scale.

So in the end the rethoric of "magecraft is science with flashy shortcuts" still applies. Big Up.

[Rafflesiac]

lol at kerry acting all cool with triple stagnate when you could just overdose on drugs instead

[Random]

Tbf, it isn't really that science does X. X is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.

Something something, Atlas analyses the laws of the world to discover Magecraft rather than inventing it, this is not a hard binary dichotomy, something something.

[Ideofago]

Science, at the very least analytical science, doesn't *do* anything. Representing science as a monolyth, as a culture, as a faith, is kinda fucking stupid. Science, for anyone that takes it seriously, is better described as the scientific method, a way to know things. That's all it is.

[Tenshi]

See Byegod, I'm a physics student and I cant tell you you're wrong. Not going to tell you why though, I'm lazy, just know you are.

Kirishima has just featured my favorite moment of the week.

[madarra]

Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

JP readers, please feel free to add if there`s other characters "introducing themselves wrongly" like the latter two, cuz sometimes it gets hidden in translation like some of the KnK subs flying around translating Touko`s like as Magus as if its correcting a mistake and not a purposeful choice

[HumanComplex]

Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

Aoko and fake magicians co's introduction probably has less to do with the magic of saving, but just a simple, abridged term to easily associate magecraft with whatever muggle's idea of magic is. Although, the wonder that comes from them saving others is pretty magical in itself; this is one of those cases where reading deeper into it doesn't end in a huge contrivance, it's a simple, nice underlying theme.

[Mattias]

Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

Nah, Friendship is Magic.

[Kirishima]

Kirishima has just featured my favorite moment of the week.

I'm here all week.

Also to manipulate time, you just need to be a fast boy, to manipulate space, you just need to be a fat boy, it's simple really.

[You]

Misc thought, Aoko introduces herself to Shiki as a magician, Touko introduces herself to Ryougi as a magician, Kiritsugu introduces himself to Shirou as a magician.

Extending a hand, saving people is magic.

JP readers, please feel free to add if there`s other characters "introducing themselves wrongly" like the latter two, cuz sometimes it gets hidden in translation like some of the KnK subs flying around translating Touko`s like as Magus as if its correcting a mistake and not a purposeful choice

Aoko and fake magicians co's introduction probably has less to do with the magic of saving, but just a simple, abridged term to easily associate magecraft with whatever muggle's idea of magic is. Although, the wonder that comes from them saving others is pretty magical in itself; this is one of those cases where reading deeper into it doesn't end in a huge contrivance, it's a simple, nice underlying theme.

Yes, it's talked about in Knk

"It does have something to do with me. I mean, my sister wants to be a wizard! What am I supposed to say to Father?"
"Oh, you are planning to drop by the house?”
… Ugh. Little rascal, she knows perfectly well that our parents and I cut our ties after we argued.
“Speaking of which, Nii-san. A wizard and a mage are different things. How can you not know about that when you work for Touko-san?”
Now that I think about it, Touko-san does sometimes say something like that. Something along the lines of how it's convenient to advertise yourself as a wizard rather than a magician as it presents the kind of image that you want, but that those are the titles of two completely different things, or something like that.
“Ah, I did hear that before. But there wasn't much difference that I could see. They both use suspicious magic.”

[You]

Tbf, it isn't really that science bends time. Time Dilation is just a thing that happens. Science has allowed us to first hypothesize it, and then detect it via measurements.
But we might one day get there if we manage to control and maintain the kinds of speeds where Time Dilation becomes noticeable at a human scale.

So in the end the rethoric of "magecraft is science with flashy shortcuts" still applies. Big Up.

Science, at the very least analytical science, doesn't *do* anything. Representing science as a monolyth, as a culture, as a faith, is kinda fucking stupid. Science, for anyone that takes it seriously, is better described as the scientific method, a way to know things. That's all it is.

You are both wrong.
The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case), TM takes science through an anthropological lens.
In that respect, humans do use science to "create" facts and shape our reality.

size

https://monoskop.org/images/e/e4/Latour_Bruno_We_Have_Never_Been_Modern.pdf

[Dullahan]

high five for latourposting, but use the monoskop link, it's safer

[Altima of the Gates]

You are both wrong.
The TM worldview is not concerned with the scientific outlook on science. Like it does with magic (poorly in Sanda's case), TM takes science through an anthropological lens.
In that respect, humans do use science to "create" facts and shape our reality.

size

https://monoskop.org/images/e/e4/Latour_Bruno_We_Have_Never_Been_Modern.pdf

It does make it awkward though that science would make the supernatural weaker when faith gives the supernatural power, and the more you know and understand a concept, the more faith you can put into it, but the logic in this universe is the more you peel away mystery, the weaker something becomes.
Its like its designed natural elements to degrade each other with no real purpose for doing so.