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Thread: Common TM Fanon and Misconceptions

  1. #1101
    Bad News LeadDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalLoliLover View Post
    Wait, was it?
    Yeah. I know it's mentioned at the beginning of LB2, when he's kidnapping Kadoc- I think they brought it up somewhere else too, but I need to sleep.

  2. #1102
    Presia messe noce yor tes mea TwilightsCall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Well I used to believe that Formal Craft and Atlas style Alchemy didn't require circuits at all.
    I think I've seen the belief pop up elsewhere.

    I think the correct view it they need circuits but don't require strong circuits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate/EXTRA Material
    アトラスの錬金術師たちは魔術回路が乏しく、魔力に頼った活動をしてこなかった者たちである。
    魔力に頼っていなかった(正しくは『頼れなかった』のだが)彼らは魔力枯渇の後でも魔術の徒として探求を続 けられた。


    "Possessing little in the way of Magic Circuits, the activities of the alchemists of Atlas did not rely on the use of Magical Energy.
    Having not relied on Magical Energy (or more accurately, because they couldn't rely on Magical Energy), they were able to continue their research as disciples of Magecraft even after the disappearance of Magical Energy from the world."

    Sounds to me like the idea that they don't use Magic Circuits for Atlas style alchemy is pretty reasonable.

    If the purpose of Magic Circuits is to filter and direct Magical Energy (which is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong), then the fact they were able to continue their work after Magical Energy disappeared from the world in Extra kind of implies they didn't need the Magic Circuits in the first place.
    The Fourth Order - Long form, Church-centric story. Follows the life of a young knight within the Church, and her personal battle against the heretical.
    My other fanfiction - Almost entirely short stories and oneshots, except for the above

  3. #1103
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    Astonishing how everyone seems to disregard some sort of time related shenanigans in Kirei's case, but they were fine with a Japanese millennial appearing in ancient Sumeria, twice.

    yes i know singularity blah blah blah, but still
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  4. #1104
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
    "Possessing little in the way of Magic Circuits, the activities of the alchemists of Atlas did not rely on the use of Magical Energy.
    Having not relied on Magical Energy (or more accurately, because they couldn't rely on Magical Energy), they were able to continue their research as disciples of Magecraft even after the disappearance of Magical Energy from the world."

    Sounds to me like the idea that they don't use Magic Circuits for Atlas style alchemy is pretty reasonable.

    If the purpose of Magic Circuits is to filter and direct Magical Energy (which is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong), then the fact they were able to continue their work after Magical Energy disappeared from the world in Extra kind of implies they didn't need the Magic Circuits in the first place.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I remember asking if it was necessary for Atlas Alchemy in the Questions thread and getting this reply from You.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Magic circuits can actually be used as information processing tools. This is mentioned in Clocktower 2015.
    And you can see this in FSN with Shirou's structural analysis blueprints, sion, dust of osiris's plan, hacking in Extra.
    Anyway Atlas does what it does because they don't have enough circuits for nature interference, so they go the other route the information processing route.
    Normal magi can do it, but obviously not as well as Atlas people who have spent their lives training with this, also if you sequester circuits to process information you can't use them for nature interference magecraft because you're already using them for something.
    So in short, you need to have circuits to do it and having a special bloodline probably helps, but you can definitely learn it.

    In Clocktower 2015, it says Touko is a high enough level magus to be a smartphone emulator.
    So maybe they just don't need mana to do the information processing part?
    That's what the other mages did in Extra right? Use their circuits for hacking and info processing if I remember right.

    I'm not sure whether I'm just conflating the thought partition and acceleration but I trust You enough at least.
    Last edited by Gray; October 4th, 2019 at 06:24 PM.

  5. #1105
    Presia messe noce yor tes mea TwilightsCall's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    It's odd to me though that they wouldn't care at all about improving the count and quality of their Magic Circuits if they are useful for them. Especially since, through their Spiritron research and technology, you'd think they would be in the best position to develop Magic Circuits out of anyone.

    It's possible they just make machines/homunculi with the necessary Circuits and use them as their primary processing equipment, but that just seems to spin us back to "they don't need their own Circuits."

    Atlas is weird. Someone should really translate those Atlas books in Case Files someday.
    The Fourth Order - Long form, Church-centric story. Follows the life of a young knight within the Church, and her personal battle against the heretical.
    My other fanfiction - Almost entirely short stories and oneshots, except for the above

  6. #1106
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post

    It's possible they just make machines/homunculi with the necessary Circuits and use them as their primary processing equipment, but that just seems to spin us back to "they don't need their own Circuits."
    Kayneth did that too
    「我が師が二十代にしてつくりだした魔術礼装が、十二家のひとつエルメロイの至上礼装とまでうたわれたのは 、単に戦闘用礼装としてのみ優れていたからではない」
     師匠の言葉を受けて、たちまちトリムマウの右手が蒸発していく。
     毒性を懸念して一瞬口元を押さえたが、水銀はそのまま蒸散することはなく、改めて中空で液化して、空中に いくつもの数字盤を浮き上がらせた
    「これって……」
    「月霊髄液は、エルメロイ派で有数の演算機でもある。もっとも、私の制御ではそのごく一部しか解放できない がね」
     そんな機能が、トリムマウに隠されていたとは。
     浮き上がった数字と記号が、目まぐるしく変わっていく。
     師匠の言う術式にとって、その数字や記号がどう関与しているのかは、自分には到底分からない 領域だ。
    オレンジ色の魔術師はポケットから携帯端末を取り出してロクスロートの地図を表示する。
    「おまえ、スマホ使うのか」
    「使うわよ?ちょっと前までガラケーだったけど、こっちの方が多機能だから機種変えしたんだけど……おかし い?」
    「だって必要ないだろ、おまえレベルだと。スマホでできる事なんざ頭ん中で出来るじゃねえか」
    計算にしろ通信にしろ、携帯端末で出来る程度の処理は魔術回路で行える。文明はいまだ神秘を駆逐する域に達 していない。テクノロジーは人間から多くの義務を肩代わりしたが、この程度ではまだ足りない。せめて人間そ のものが不要になる域でなければ、魔術が追い越される事はない。なので高位の魔術師ほど電子機器を軽視、な いし軽蔑している。そういったものに頼るのは未熟者だと公言しているようなものだからだ。しか し。
    「外付けの端末で用が足りるのなら、その分の回路を違う用途に回せるでしょう?今まであった機能を捨てる代 わりに新しい能力を獲得する。未来にリソースを残すってこういう事だと思うけど?」
    「―――ほら。だから憎らしいんだよ、アンタは」
    「先生」
     と呼んでも、すぐには気づいてもらえなかった。
     二度は呼ばず、傘を差しかけると、ハートレスは二度ほど瞬きして、頭を下げた。
    「ああ、すみません。つい、新しい術式を思いついて、計算に没頭してしまって」
     だったら、計算していたのは脳だけではなくて、魔術回路もだろう。一定以上の魔術師となれば、思考に使う のは脳だけではない。リアルタイムに必要なだけの魔術回路を駆動させ、問題の解決へと挑む── らしい。
     講義を受けた少年にしてからが、才能不足すぎてついていけない領域ではあるのだが。
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  7. #1107
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    figured it out
    「それでも方向性まで分かってる以上、ズェピアのような頭脳や、あのルヴィアゼリッタのような一流の魔
    術回路があれば近づけるだろう。だが、私の脳でも魔術回路でもそれだけの計算はかなわない」
    world. Collecting information to diagram the root ancestry of events.
    Our brains are possessed by the demon of Laplace.
    We interfere with limitless possibilities to set up limited formulas for "reading the future".
    "Yes. The alchemists of Atlas were originally a gathering of those with little magical ability due to having a small number of Magic Circuits.
    They decided for themselves to take a completely natural approach and proceed forward as humans to achieve their goals.
    The result of that is the present Atlas Academy.
    We use above all else our own intellect to make a blueprint for the future."

    "Make───the future?"

    "It goes without saying that the future is not something that occurs, but is something that is made.
    With the ingredients of the present day, we make the future for better or worse. We analyze these ingredients to measure the future.
    We dramatically shift probability to make a perfect model from the ingredients.
    Magic Circuits are paths connecting to the 'root' called 'The One'. Magi use these to bring their ideal future closer.
    However, those of us with meager Magic Circuits must rely only upon our own intellect to make that ideal future."
    "Now we craft weapons. But our foundation is a fusion of rituals and science. You could say the alchemists of Atlas specialize in those techniques."

    "Oh... like that Etherlite you have?"

    "The Etherlite is a technique handed down in the Eltnam family. The foundation techniques of Atlas are Thought Acceleration and Thought Partition.
    After that, acceleration and conversion alchemy is acquired."

    "??? Thought Acceleration just means thinking really fast... but Thought Partition is......"

    "As the name implies. The alchemists of Atlas are able to partition their thoughts to form multiple thought processes.
    Think of it this way. Normal people have only one 'room' in their brain, so they can focus on only one thought.
    Thought Partitioning adds partitions inside the one room to create multiple rooms.
    Alchemists of Atlas must be able to partition their thoughts into three rooms, and five is on the level of genius.
    It is said there was an Academy Director in the past who was able to achieve eight."

    "...... Hmmm? So, it's like having two or three calculators in your head?"

    "That is meaningless.
    There may be multiple thought processes, but only one goal.
    While the multiple thought processes work on differing problem sets, they work together to generate one overall solution.
    If it was simply calculation, would not current machines be on the same level? Rather, it is for problem solving, so nothing else even compares."
    ───Thought Acceleration is our magic.
    Fast thinking is only a prerequisite. Thought Acceleration itself is applying that ability to multi−expansion diagrams.

    And furthermore, superior alchemists must have multiple sectors in their brains.

    If Thought Acceleration is proof of an alchemist, then the number of sectors is proof of their facilities.

    Through Thought Partition, a superior alchemist can create between three and five rooms.

    I gave the example of dividing one 'thought' into rooms to Shiki, but that would be the limit of a strictly average alchemist.

    Superior alchemists may perform first−order tetrations of their 'thought' into rooms.

    These 'rooms' are synergistic.
    Four Thought Partitions allow 256 thought processes. But, that does not simply mean 256 alchemist calculations can be achieved.

    The 256 accelerated intelligences do not work independently, but constantly cycle towards the same goal.

    The pinnacle of alchemy is creating a miracle.
    That is the magic of alchemy.
    Magi use circuits for mad calcs. More circuits = more CPU cores.
    Alchemist use circuits to build rooms inside brain. You can build n^a with meh circuits so what's the point of using your circuits to do calcs when you have brain rooms. The brain is probably limited so there's no point in having more circuits than what gives you your max amount of rooms. Having extra circuits that don't synergize with the the brain rooms is either a waste or goes against that philosophy of theirs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    it seems like the math or translation is wrong or weird and can't find anything about "first−order tetrations"
    But the numbers make sense if having 4 rooms gives you 256 parallel calcs as 4^4
    So then 5 rooms would be 5^5 calcs?
    If that's the case this guy
    "As the name implies. The alchemists of Atlas are able to partition their thoughts to form multiple thought processes.
    Think of it this way. Normal people have only one 'room' in their brain, so they can focus on only one thought.
    Thought Partitioning adds partitions inside the one room to create multiple rooms.
    Alchemists of Atlas must be able to partition their thoughts into three rooms, and five is on the level of genius.
    It is said there was an Academy Director in the past who was able to achieve eight."
    probably Zepia could go 8^8.
    Adding circuits beyond what's necessary to construct rooms seems unnecessary in the calc department if you can go from 27 calcs to 256 calcs with the addition of a single room.
    Last edited by You; October 5th, 2019 at 08:31 PM.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  8. #1108
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Eliwoodisshirousbiologicalfather's Avatar
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    i was so fuckin confused reading the first route of tsukhime trying to figure out wtf was the difference was between SHIKI and shiki ik now but it really confused me at first idk if i should have paid more attention or what

  9. #1109
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mAc Chaos View Post
    Is Kotomine always dying in the 5th war one of those types of events?
    Didn't HA or an interview around that time confirm this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  10. #1110
    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    It makes sense...Kotomine was already dead since the 4th war...even if Kotomine wins he doesnt plan on anyone else surviving. So the only way there can be an 'after' of the 5th war is if he's dead.

    The amount of people coming in through UBW and HF these days is bewildering to see some views. Some are absolutely convinced that "Archer is Shirou from Fate Stay Night 2006, he went to UBW 2014 afterward and then the HF movies"



  11. #1111
    not available due to uni Wallacia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuhanyou View Post
    It makes sense...Kotomine was already dead since the 4th war...even if Kotomine wins he doesnt plan on anyone else surviving. So the only way there can be an 'after' of the 5th war is if he's dead.

    The amount of people coming in through UBW and HF these days is bewildering to see some views. Some are absolutely convinced that "Archer is Shirou from Fate Stay Night 2006, he went to UBW 2014 afterward and then the HF movies"
    Ahem, Unlimited codes...Gilgamesh route, ahem.

    Nothing extraordinary for a secondary viewer frankly. even if Emiya original timeline make 0 sense if it's not quantum locked.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Arc’s real master is a boy in a school uniform

  12. #1112
    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    this video probably started most of the misconception and the comments are even worse




  13. #1113
    not available due to uni Wallacia's Avatar
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    To make this river's flow worse for whom their sight fall upon it.

    Last edited by Wallacia; October 6th, 2019 at 02:02 AM.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Arc’s real master is a boy in a school uniform

  14. #1114
    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    As an Arturia and Shirou fanboy, thanks for the pic. I'll go dump my eyes in a pool of acid now



  15. #1115
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Didn't HA or an interview around that time confirm this?
    I feel that's more a Kotomine is willing to fight to the death for his goal of seeing Angra. So either he succeeds and dies because Angra, or he doesn't succeed and the people opposing him kill him thing.

    Take him out of a fuyuki thing and he'd probably live beyond 2004.

  16. #1116
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Eliwoodisshirousbiologicalfather's Avatar
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    what is atlas, when will luvia get her own spin off and why will witch on the holy night never get an anime adaptation?
    To be fair, what kind of monster would allow their spouse and child live in a ruined Earth with everyone else dead? Many would think that a worse fate than death itself.

  17. #1117
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    1. autists
    2. never
    3. it's already animated
    うん
    しゅん

    じゅ


  18. #1118
    Inactive Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallacia View Post
    To make this river's flow worse for whom their sight fall upon it.

    Beautiful


    みてってね、まおーさま!

  19. #1119
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallacia View Post
    To make this river's flow worse for whom their sight fall upon it.

    While I do ship this pairing , this domestic fanart is pretty dull compared to their actual relationship

  20. #1120
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallacia View Post
    To make this river's flow worse for whom their sight fall upon it.

    Is that...oh gods!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

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