You are allowed to take both. Just understand that we'll be having to figure out SOME style of magecraft for her, likely out of whole cloth if you keep her magic, as it is, intact.Originally Posted by Xamusel
Which is only a few lines worth of dialogue, and references to her bronze link manipulators being named after dogs...
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
I hear that... maybe her Magecraft could involve Lightning? I think that might be the best idea. At the very least, since she's using metal limbs in canon, she'd have some need to know how to use electricity properly.
I'll decide what her points will be as soon as you give me a reply.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
It's up to the readers if you want her magic to continue. Remaking her from scratch would be a whole lot easier, as shown with the Kitsune Scion route. She'd still have access to a form of magic, just not necessarily one she's used to. And Tamamo wouldn't mind a daughter one bit. Alternatively, if you want to have a magecraft that no one knows much of anything about, and would have to be figured out from scratch... well, everyone would have to be in accord that that magecraft would work well for her.
Kieran dropped the idea of keeping her in the Grail Works entirely because we don't know how to work her out without her becoming pretty much an original character over time, due to lack of knowledge about everything for her abilities. If you want to see her as a prana battery for Chiron, giving a wise guide to Erik and co? That's fine. You want to see her as someone who can actually arise to become a power in her own right, one that's going to happily jump Godafrid for snuggles the next time they unite? That's also fine. I'm not jumping for one route or another. I'm just being blunt about how much will have to be made from scratch if you want her magic abilities fixed up from canon, and us working that out.
Feel free to post ideas, etc.
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
Okay... for now, I have to say that I want to see Fiore be a Pathfinder 1e character, and that the last point should be used for re-summoning Chiron.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
Current books I have access to, or own:
Werewolf the Apocalypse: 20th Anniversary Edition
Changeling the Lost: 1st edition
Vampire the Masquerade: Second Edition
All Dungeons and Dragons 5e books
Mekton Zeta and Mekton Zeta Plus.
Scion 1e, all books
Scion 2e, all books
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
Oh, okay, then... D&D 5e it is now.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
Was he ever not? :P
Oh, you have no idea . . . I've gotten a preview of Masks of the Mythos, the Scion Lovecraftian supplement, you see. I had had hopes of being able to adapt, say Abigail or other Foreigners, that way - or at least hoped for descriptions of some of the Elder Gods that were brought in as antagonists to Cthluhu and his ilk by later writers (being a Bast fan, I'm always up for giving her more attention). Sadly, said book not only does not include them, but as designed, shows the Mythos entities as being universally hostile to the World in general; such that both Titans and Gods oppose them.
So if the Plain Doll, or something using her likeness, is showing up here . . .? I highly doubt that the "cosmic indifference/inadvertently disastrous attempts at helping" of Bloodborne's Great Ones can be expected . . .
. . . SAY WHAT?!
That and the whole "toying with her heart by stealing her lover's identity," yeah - I really can't see her getting past that (though ironically, a more "proper" magus might - but Godafrid would hardly be interested in one.)
Like, for example, if I could reasonably justify a Solar Exaltation . . . *Sighs*
. . . Again, I feel you are FAR too optimistic here . . .
“Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”
— Carmilla Theme
"Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."
―Jim Butcher, Vignette
Perfectly fair, I suppose.
That rough, huh? Damn. I set Erik up for rough waters ahead, huh?Oh, you have no idea . . . I've gotten a preview of Masks of the Mythos, the Scion Lovecraftian supplement, you see. I had had hopes of being able to adapt, say Abigail or other Foreigners, that way - or at least hoped for descriptions of some of the Elder Gods that were brought in as antagonists to Cthluhu and his ilk by later writers (being a Bast fan, I'm always up for giving her more attention). Sadly, said book not only does not include them, but as designed, shows the Mythos entities as being universally hostile to the World in general; such that both Titans and Gods oppose them.
So if the Plain Doll, or something using her likeness, is showing up here . . .? I highly doubt that the "cosmic indifference/inadvertently disastrous attempts at helping" of Bloodborne's Great Ones can be expected . . .
Oh, you didn't spot that little sub option for two points, for Fiore to accidentally be adopted as a Scion by Tamamo while Tamamo attempts to help her with Magic Circuits? My. *Rubs my hands together* you got all the other stuff proofread except for the options, then. INTERESTING... Mwahahaha. . . SAY WHAT?!
Considering we both know of at least ONE canon Nasu character that would simply see him as her lover's reincarnation? It's not really hard to see her rationalizing something out...That and the whole "toying with her heart by stealing her lover's identity," yeah - I really can't see her getting past that (though ironically, a more "proper" magus might - but Godafrid would hardly be interested in one.)
Thus me giving options lower than that, or on that scale *cough Scion 1e or 2e options cough*Like, for example, if I could reasonably justify a Solar Exaltation . . . *Sighs*
For now. At the same time... this is still Fiore we're talking about.. . . Again, I feel you are FAR too optimistic here . . .
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
Because it was a preview, I'm not sure I can share it - but yeah, not pleasant, and not much in the way of options to even keep the Mythos deities neutral, from what I saw. Which is kind of annoying, because one of the overarching themes of Lovecraft is that the universe doesn't care. Yes, it will screw you over, but it's not malicious about it, a lot of the time - whereas this seems very much to be.
. . . It makes me dread what'll happen if they ever get around to doing Camelot like they promised.
I don't read the options - I just worry about the story text. After that, any spelling and grammar errors are on you.Oh, you didn't spot that little sub option for two points, for Fiore to accidentally be adopted as a Scion by Tamamo while Tamamo attempts to help her with Magic Circuits? My. *Rubs my hands together* you got all the other stuff proofread except for the options, then. INTERESTING... Mwahahaha
Aren't most characters like that Berserkers . . .?Considering we both know of at least ONE canon Nasu character that would simply see him as her lover's reincarnation? It's not really hard to see her rationalizing something out...
Mm.Thus me giving options lower than that, or on that scale *cough Scion 1e or 2e options cough*
Which is why I think it's worse - she actually has a heart to break . . .For now. At the same time... this is still Fiore we're talking about.
“Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”
— Carmilla Theme
"Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."
―Jim Butcher, Vignette
Well, I'm not especially against 5e, though it definitely seems like an interesting magic system to graft into Mega Man Zero.
Picking Chiron makes the "advice" path tempting, I guess.
So, I propose:
1) Fiore, 5e Character Sheet (I assume RB handles class choice, or we have a runoff or something)
2) Fiore, Chiron
3-4) Nestor, Guide
5) Erik, Mechanical Genius
6) Erik, Relic Creation
7) Mordred, Clarent Communication
8-9) Scylla: Consult with Nestor and Chiron about which option of Titanspawn no more?, Integrating the Whole, or Ascension...? is best, and pick that
The real power of magical wisdom: Making decisions with more context and foresight than I have.
I'll be leaving the class up to readers. That lets you all be more invested in how Fiore grows over time. (And yes, that means homebrew classes are an option, if you want to hunt one down.)
Now just to see what Xamusel votes for...
Edit: And anyone else that might want to speak up about things.
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
I vote for what Arbitrarity chose.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
I'd expect some sort of spellcaster by default, so I'm just going to list all of them, and what comes to mind.I'll be leaving the class up to readers. That lets you all be more invested in how Fiore grows over time. (And yes, that means homebrew classes are an option, if you want to hunt one down.)
Artificer:
- Somewhat redundant with Erik's crafting thing
- Can probably leverage that into faster learning, or synergies. Repeating Shot comes to mind.
- Can enchant stuff
- Probably the closest fit with Bronze-Link Manipulators (Armorer specialization)
Bard:
- College of Creation has potentially hilarious synergy
- Probably not a good fit, flavor-wise
Cleric:
- Lots of interesting subclasses (Forge, Tempest, Arcana)
- Imply some sort of faith (this seems like it may not fit)
Druid:
- I don't really think so, though she reportedly uses animal spirits in places.
Sorcerer:
- Metamagic
- Interesting subclasses (Clockwork Soul, Storm Sorcery)
Warlock:
- Pacts seem like trouble, unless it's with the Archfey or something (and considering the influence of the Elven pantheon already, that seems... terrifying)
- Have the best familiars
Wizard:
- The most literal spellcaster
- Has the best ritual access
- Variety of specializations
I lean towards Artificer or Wizard, because I am super literal. Divination or Conjuration would be what I'd expect from Wizard specializations, while I'd expect Armorer or Artillerist from Artificer.
On the subject of classes that don't exist in 5e, 3.5's Binder (Tome of Magic) is pretty cool, flavor-wise. It's not strong, but it's interesting.
I'm partial to the Wizard class, actually, with her being a Conjurer.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
Just adding in my two cents. Sorcerers have a nice advantage of not needing someone to teach them magic, to learn it. Warlocks could also be homebrewed to have one of the divine beings in the party be the one they're getting power from in the first place. Otherwise a lot of it will involve waiting until she has access to actual D&D magical tomes.
Doesn't hurt that canonically, she's a good speaker and a pretty decent leader, and since a Sorcerer's casting stat is Charisma...
The other options don't hurt, either, in their own way, you two. Just understand that whatever spells she starts with, is what she's keeping until they run into a universe that has some spell books compatible enough to work out for her. No magical spell books, unless Tamamo as well as Chiron both are taking time to develop things with her. Spell by spell. In the singular "one by one" sense.
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
Okay, I'm gonna say Sorcerer now, in light of this released info.
Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile
For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.
Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.
An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.
Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?
Artificer has their entire spell list to prepare from, similar to Cleric/Druid, and don't need spellbooks. Seriously, Armorer is really fitting. Look at what Arcane Armor does.
Archfey pact technically fits Tamamo, I guess. If you're doing that sort of thing, you might as well just go Forge Cleric or something.
I'd be a bit confused about which sorcerer subclass would fit. Most don't really have fitting flavor. Divine Soul, Clockwork Soul, and Storm Sorcery are plausible, though Storm Sorcery is... bad.
This is what the wiki has on her canon abilities (bolded emphasis by me):
"She is a genius in possession of a terrifyingly deep wealth of talent in a single field, that of spiritual evocation and human engineering. She is weak in most other types of thaumaturgy, but she rivals or even surpasses the first-class instructors of the Clock Tower in her field. She possesses an ability called "Eulyphis", or Spirit Medium. She uses Spiritual Evocation Magecraft, but she doesn’t communicate or have herself possessed by spirits directly, instead favoring Mystic Codes made of mechanical parts which have several animal spirits inserted into them. As an evocation specialist, she can probably use psychoscopy to read residual memories in locations."
So, Armourer yes, with a general slanting of her spells towards Conjuration focus, with a Divination secondary . . .? (As "evocation" has wildly different meanings between TYPE-MOON and D&D . . .)
Honestly, a psychic bias might suit her better (specifically, I'm thinking of Pathfinder's "occult" classes), in terms of representing what she can actually do, if you're trying for a direct 1-to-1 adaptation.
Last edited by Kieran; October 26th, 2021 at 08:35 PM.
“Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”
— Carmilla Theme
"Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."
―Jim Butcher, Vignette
Yeah, we don't have a good analogue in 5e for that, certainly. I suppose "doesn't communicate or have herself possessed by spirits" makes Binder unfitting. Given the constraints involved, I'm okay trying to capture a subset of her powers.
Artificers are pretty light on Divination, unfortunately, and what they have is incredibly utilitarian (Detect Magic, Identify, See Invisibility, Arcane Eye). They can get a bit more with Replicate Magic Item infusions (Wand of Secrets, Lantern of Revealing, Gem of True Seeing), but those are still pretty... mundane, by magical standards. Their conjuration is similarly a bit anemic (Grease, Web, Conjure Food and Water, Summon Construct). Stuff like Tiny Servant, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, and the Homunculus Infusion fit really well, though they aren't technically conjuration.
The "creates Mystic Codes made of mechanical parts with animal spirits inserted into them" is well within the scope of Artificer flavor, though.
Sorcerer subclass-wise... Aberrant Mind is NOT the kind of "psychic" we're talking about. Clockwork Soul and Divine Soul still seem fitting. Wild Magic... could make sense as representing the conflict between realities inherent in applying a foreign magic system, but honestly is the kind of zany I don't love. I'd want to find homebrew improvements to Storm Sorcery if we wanted to go full lightning, just on principle.
Sorcerers also don't get summon spells OR much divination unless you're a Divine Soul; their list is more restricted than Wizards. That leads me to Divine Soul being the most fitting subclass if we want a conjuration/divination focus.
Main difference is between more of an active frontline combat role, or supportive/battlefield control role, and between flavors of magic. I still prefer Armourer for seeming like a more interesting and synergistic option.
Definitely a good overview of each classification, there! I'm rather quite impressed over it all, and working out all the options. Good job, Arbitrarity! Here's hoping you two can come to a vote sooner or later on it.
My Halloween Anarchy snippet is in the Grail Works mission dossier, by the way, if anyone's wondering.
I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?
I write like Douglas Adams. Proof: http://iwl.me/s/696f37bd
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