Yeah, that's why I was shocked. Kiritsugu fucking Maiya is already disturbing on several levels, but the fact that he essentially engaged in wife husbandry just makes it worse.Originally Posted by forumghost
Yeah, that's why I was shocked. Kiritsugu fucking Maiya is already disturbing on several levels, but the fact that he essentially engaged in wife husbandry just makes it worse.
An old one shot, I forget who but I want to say Vel wrote it, where all the Master's of Zero are just 20-30 yr old Chunni's. You'd probably have to go digging through the graveyard that the Fanfic section has become for some old drabble thread to find it. Or hope someone with a better memory than me remembers the name.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
That just sounds like Fate/Zero to me.
Give the Butcher a break guys, his dad just passed away.
I mean I'm just saying, anyone that says this:
In an interview is more than a little Chunni"I have nothing but contempt for the deceitful thing men call 'happiness', and find myself with no choice but to push my characters, whom I pour my heart and soul out to create, into the abyss of tragedy."
The anime makes it worse with how the music portrays Iskandar as the right one.
None of them are better than the other. But to say that Iskandar is the best... Dude's mentality is that of a bandit leader. Good lord I wish someone actually looked at actual history. I honestly wonder if the people who praise Iskandar so much ever heard of tyranny, cuz that's pretty much what he's talking about. His examples are fucking shit. He says some good things like the whole "the king is not alone" stuff, but then he goes and shits the bed with the rest of his examples, like "the king must laugh louder than any other" and all of that stuff.
Honestly, Fate and Type Moon in general should not bother talking about serious stuff so much. Like in Kara no Kyoukai with the whole "you can only kill someone once" or the whole suicide theme of the first story/movie. Maybe it's lost in translation or I'm dumb, but sometimes it misses the mark.
I sometimes wonder if Urobuchi believes what he says with his stories.
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I initally wanted to make a joke about Urobuchi, but that's actually sad. I hope he's okay.
Thanks!
I originally saw that quote out of context and interpreted it as Urobochi taking a piss out of people who call him the "Butcher". Then I read actual interviews and realized that he isn't joking, the man REALLY is a total chuuni. "Eyesight of the dead" sounds like something a Naruto villain would say.
Pretty much. Iskandar always struck me as a manchild who got to his position through brute force, but tries to sugarcoat it because, in his deluded mind, he actually considers himself "inspiring". The saddest part is that he was actually convincing to a lot of people, but I like to believe it is just because most do not look deep into his philosophy and are simply attracted to his hedonistic lifestyle (that is problematic unto itself, but let's not open that particular can of worms).
In my opinion, it is fine for Type-Moon to talk about serious things, but I do agree that things often go off the rails. I can tolerate stuff like the suicide theme you mentioned, because while it IS rather silly, it is so clear that Nasu was OH SO EXCITED when he wrote about these things that his joy is almost infectious. It is rather like participating in a RPG session with a rather pretentious GM that is clearly way out of his depth when it comes to the story, but is having so much fun that you can't help but go along for the ride.
When he tries to inject actual philosophy into his writing, though... THAT'S when I sometimes get annoyed. To this day I think Shirou's portrayal in Heaven's Feel is tremendously silly and, at times, borderline sociopathic. I could never understand those who say Heaven's Feel is the most "adult" of the three routes. He does get things right sometimes, though... Avenger's pep talk with Bazette is actually rather charming, if awkwardly constructed. That does not happen too often, sadly.
As for Urobochi believing what he writes... well, as far as I recall, he does not consider himself a good writer. Maybe he was just trying to make that scene entertaining. He IS a huge chuuni, though, so who knows. Maybe he actually wishes he was Iskandar, deep down.
That's awful. I hope he is doing well.
Last edited by Benderesco; April 26th, 2020 at 01:30 PM.
Considering he used to waste his time reading ToHeart fanfics in his late 20s i doubt hes in reality even half as edgy and evil as feelinghurt and inferiority complex having nasu stans make him out to be.
He tries really hard to portray himself as being super edgy, though. I don't know how much of that is him being a total chuuni and how much is just him tending to his brand, to be frank, but I'd wager he really enjoys being known as the "Butcher".
Now of couse, anyone saying he is an evil edgelord is just being silly. The man's a chuuni, but he's still a total weeb. A weeb who says he doesn't have at least a bit of love for cute animu stuff is either not a weeb or a complete liar.
Last edited by Benderesco; April 26th, 2020 at 01:52 PM.
Not surprised. You need to be really familiar with a genre to break it the way Urobuchi does. So Madoka probably means he's super hard into Cardcaptor Sakura or some equivalent.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
He went as far as to recommend his favorite ToHeart fanfic writer to nitroplus, and the madlads actually signed him.
Spoiler:
I thought Urobuchi was slowly moving away from the grimdark edgelord crap, unless I'm super wrong about that.
Also, about Iskandar being portrayed as right, I will admit, the way the anime did it made it seem like he won a resounding victory, even when nah, he basically shouted down Saber. Admittedly, Saber was already plagued with doubt over her decisions, and most of what Iskandar criticized her for was having regrets and failing to actually lead her people as opposed to just saving them. If Saber's heart was clear, I believe she could have easily countered his arguments. Besides, no need to accuse Iskandar of being delusional or sugarcoating his actions because no, he really is an unapologetic tyrant who just happened by sheer force of personal charisma to bring his friends along for the ride. Sure, Fate does portray him more positively than he actually was because it doesn't mention his random, arbitrary cruelty and bouts of rage, but the essence of his idea of conquest is still there. Even IRL, he did want to combine the cultures he came across in his conquests into one and create a durable legacy from that, and thanks to him, over a millenia of cultural diffusion from East-West and West-East was possible.
TBH
IH being his defining Noble Phantasm is a little strange in the face of Hellenism. The takeaway from RL Alexander was not even his companions could go to the end, they were that fed up with his bullshit.
I don't know how you could adequately portray a distilled version of the cultural reach of Hellenism that is relatively respectful, as much as can be in this anime format.
They all were loyal to the end, though, and things only fell apart after he died.
By sugarcoating his actions and being delusional I intended to say that Iskandar gives off an impression that he thinks he is an inspiring genius, when in fact he is just a skilled warmonger who glues his entourage together because of that, not because he is an "inspiration". Of course, I don't know what the real Alexander thought and I do not deny the effects his conquests had on the development of civilization, but he certainly was NOT a shining beacon of charisma that entranced everyone, as evidenced by how many of his decrees were essentially put up with because people were afraid of him (just look at what happened to the Susa Weddings after his death).
Fate/Iskandar is a tyrant, much like his real-life counterpart, but seems to be deluding himself into thinking he is MORE than that - the extreme of all things, good and evil, as he himself puts it. A tyrant who is universally beloved and "burns within his people", when in reality the people have no other choice. Dude is the kind of dictator that would truly believe the cult of personality surrounding him is genuine and not the result of fear/social brainwashing.
Last edited by Benderesco; April 26th, 2020 at 05:04 PM.
Fate/Alexander did nothing wrong, actually.
Some of his cult of personality was definitely genuine, especially among his Macedonian men, but of course, the historiography and the sources are far from unbiased. Then again, we hear more about how people disdained the later decisions of Alexander than we do about supporters, so honestly, who knows?
Forgot to mention, BUT tyrant he may have been, Fate/Iskandar had real positive impact on Waver, Taiga, and to a very arguable extent, Saber (this gets into which came first and whether it counts or not).
Tbh I always looked at the Banquet of Kings as a way to stir Saber's development for later parts in FSN, and I always felt Iskandar's adamant points were rooted in the fact he truly did feel sympathy for her.
I don't have much to say about interpretation of his reign, I'm not a history person. Also feel the authors can take creative liberties if they want--because what was important to me was the narrative (with Iskandar helping Waver with his own story). So some of this of Iskandar being an influential person could have been tweaked because he was always meant to be that person that would inspire Waver.
I think with Fate sometimes it's best not to take things too seriously and go along with it.
I do agree for the most part, BUT Fate itself tries to take Iskandar seriously, both as a character and as a historical figure.
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