roleplaying general discussion

[RacingeR]

well obviously. it's a general example of the overall point i'm making.

I don't think so. A good RP should have "variety", to say so. It would be unrealistic in another way. I understand your point, but it is still a bad example, I think.

a good game master can anticipate (and accommodate) his players Hero and that's all that he needs to do apart from keeping the setting and plot in order

No way in hell. I have been GM a LOT of times, without any exaggeration, and I can tell that it is completely impossible to anticipate everything about your players. And even if you are accommodating them, you need to do so under certain limits. A lot of players love to break the setting or the plot for the lulz, for example, and that is something you can't end accommodating. And I repeat, anticipating their every action is completely impossible, even if you have experience.

that is a falsehood hero. The GM is a story teller not a leader. he presents the story he does not write it so to speak.

Sadly, it is not like that. While what you say would be the ideal, but, in reality, being the GM means that you are taking inevitably the leadership role.

[lantzblades]

No way in hell. I have been GM a LOT of times, without any exaggeration, and I can tell that it is completely impossible to anticipate everything about your players.

i never said everything don't presume that's what i meant. further you don't understand what i mean by accommodating players. I mean accommodating their goals not their every whim. to assume that I meant their every whim shows a bit of inexperience on your end.

Sadly, it is not like that. While what you say would be the ideal

it is like that and with good game masters it is in fact common place.

being the GM means that you are taking inevitably the leadership role.

only if you're a bad one. a game master should exist to tell the story his influence shouldn't exist as a primary focus at any time (save the wind down at the end of a night of play)

[Ace]

It really comes down to a person's opinion really. Arguing your opinion on what a good GM against someone else opinion is rather pointless.

[Mellon]

I have two pet peeves that annoy me with a lot of RPs. Not enough to really matter, but just kinda niggling in the back of my head. They are separate issues, though in a lot of cases they really overlap.

Firstly is the need to make all the villains "lulz faceroll" type that are either unbeatable without a gimmick or "you need to level up" for it (and in many cases even then require PCs to "team up").

Look at Kotomine for example. He will not be facerolling Saber cause of his "hax powers", but he is still a brilliant villain. Why? Cause he outmaneuvers his opponents and plays them against each other. He does not need to be able to solo everybody and look pristine while doing it. At no point is he "completely undefeatable" for the "Masters". Now this is debatable, but I still cannot help but cringe every time a GM boasts the equivalent of "X is like the TYPEs, that means you need to be its bitch for now" kind of spiels. Powerful is fine, but "beyond the PCs" is just fanwanking original characters for no reason, imo.

My second issue is pretty simple. Power progression. More precisely all kinds of "level up to get more power" systems. They do not fit in a web-based RP...at all.

The reason why PC games have them is to pad out the play-time. In a web-RP, that already moves at a snails pace, a "level system" is dead weight. It serves no purpose. Most of the RPs I have made (granted, not many and not many successful ones) and most of the RPs that I feel are really well made, do not have one. Oh, power progression is there and getting stronger is possible of course, but it is tied to the story (you achieve a certain skill as a part of the story, rather then "power up" according to a leveling scheme). Give the player the "lions share" of their power in the beginning and then have him do "refinement" of those abilities, if you would like.

I have never seen an actual working "leveling" system that actually works in a web-RP. In fact, transfering any sort of "RPG gameplay" elements into what is basically a "story-driven" medium (web-RPs) is bound to end up in shambles and feeling tacked on, imo.

Just my two cents.

[RacingeR]

@Lantz: Sincerely, by reading all this, you really have a serious lack of experience... no offense with that, but man...

@Mellon: All I have to say at the respect is that you have to take in account that there are different kinds of players with different expectatives.

I agree with most of that, though.

[lantzblades]

@Lantz: Sincerely, by reading all this, you really have a serious lack of experience... no offense with that, but man...

yeah sure because 10 plus years of role playing isn't experience...oh wait

believe what you want race but don't expect me not to be offended at baseless insults thrown in my face just because you say no offense.

as for you mellon you make a good point converting a game to a web based experience is a touchy subject and more often then not a bad idea to convert straight from the source.

[Mellon]

@Mellon: All I have to say at the respect is that you have to take in account that there are different kinds of players with different expectatives.

I agree with most of that, though.

Well, the first has nothing to do with the players. I do think those who would actually like to be put into a situation where the "enemies" are massively overpowered are few and far between. And I do believe that most people would agree with me that Kotomine is a better villain then Type Jupiter or even Type Moon.

As for the second, I see no reason why a "leveling" system needs to be in place. It does not give anything except already padding out something that is a long and drawn out affair and I prefer Regalia "power-system" greatly over the standard "you are a worthless maggot, now work up so you could have a chance against the villains" type of "powerlevels".

[SeiKeo]

Well, the first has nothing to do with the players. I do think those who would actually like to be put into a situation where the "enemies" are massively overpowered are few and far between. And I do believe that most people would agree with me that Kotomine is a better villain then Type Jupiter or even Type Moon.

Meh, I'd say that isn't really a good comparison. It's not as if TJ or TM really have any detail in canon.

[Mellon]

Meh, I'd say that isn't really a good comparison. It's not as if TJ or TM really have any detail in canon.

Baah, you get the point. As a rule of thumb, "Xanathos"-type Magnificent Bastard type of villains are better then "X curbstomp" villain. Losing to them feels like you have been out-thought and out-planned. Losing to "omg gamebreaker" villain just feels like you are losing to them because the NPCs are just "more wanked" then the PCs (and usually for no actual reason).

[RacingeR]

Baah, you get the point. As a rule of thumb, "Xanathos"-type Magnificent Bastard type of villains are better then "X curbstomp" villain. Losing to them feels like you have been out-thought and out-planned. Losing to "omg gamebreaker" villain just feels like you are losing to them because the NPCs are just "more wanked" then the PCs (and usually for no actual reason).

Oh? You like the Xanatos type of villian?

:V

[SeiKeo]

Baah, you get the point. As a rule of thumb, "Xanathos"-type Magnificent Bastard type of villains are better then "X curbstomp" villain. Losing to them feels like you have been out-thought and out-planned. Losing to "omg gamebreaker" villain just feels like you are losing to them because the NPCs are just "more wanked" then the PCs (and usually for no actual reason).

Eh. The problem with Xanathos villains is that when done right, they're good, but when done wrong, they're even worse than a gamebreaker. In an effort to replicate the effect, it can just as easily feel unfair and arbitrary that the villain knows all that and was able to plan for it. IMHO, it's a lot easier to screw up.

[Mellon]

Oh? You like the Xanatos type of villian?

:V

You get my point. No need to nitpick.

-.-

Eh. The problem with Xanathos villains is that when done right, they're good, but when done wrong, they're even worse than a gamebreaker. In an effort to replicate the effect, it can just as easily feel unfair and arbitrary that the villain knows all that and was able to plan for it. IMHO, it's a lot easier to screw up.

A gamebreaker villain always feels unfair. And the GM has more then enough tools to pull it off believably.

There is no credible reason to introduce villains whose entire purpose is basically showing the PC how pathetic they are compared to them (power-wise).

Look at every Type Moon villain. None of them are fanwanked powerhouses who can level the entire cast in seconds. But they think, they plan and they are pulled of magnificently. They are beatable and above all, they are human and make mistakes like humans do.

[RacingeR]

You get my point. No need to nitpick.

-.-

I wasn't nitpicking, I was just being mysterious~

I am pretty sure you will like the Persona RP now.

(I would use the Kihihihi laugh, but that's Verg gimmick xD)

[Elyrin]

I wasn't nitpicking, I was just being mysterious~

I am pretty sure you will like the Persona RP now.

(I would use the Kihihihi laugh, but that's Verg gimmick xD)

You must develop your own type of evil laughter.

No true GM is complete without one.

[Mellon]

I wasn't nitpicking, I was just being mysterious~

I am pretty sure you will like the Persona RP now.

(I would use the Kihihihi laugh, but that's Verg gimmick xD)

I do like your RP (and I am going to join it). But I feel a bit down on the fact that you chose to go with "put on your grinding pants if you even want to look at the villains" kind of powerlevels.

:P

[RacingeR]

You must develop your own type of evil laughter.

No true GM is complete without one.

Well, I have the creepy puppet-like laughter, but since not many people here has read Homestuck, it isn't as recognizable...

Hmm...

[Elyrin]

I do like your RP (and I am going to join it). But I feel a bit down on the fact that you chose to go with "put on your grinding pants if you even want to look at the villains" kind of powerlevels.

:P

Well, it's SMT. What did you expect?

[Erlkonig]

Rule 1: Be clear about your setting, when does the game take place and what has occurred prior.

I think I've managed to this one, somewhat. I'll need to write more STORYTIEM, I guess? Thankfully I wrote up a whole backstory leading up to the year.

Rule 2: be clear with your premise

No one wants to join a game that promises to be an action based game only to have it turn into a slice of life role play or a mystery horror or such.

Well... I think this one I've been following, were it not for Theo and Leo's efforts to turn it from GRIMDERP into Slice of Life >_>

Rule 3: Be clear with your game’s rules

Without clear rules it leads to player confusion and GM abuse of power by way of the GM simply deciding on a whim that certain things work certain ways any time they want.

Err... Somewhat done, I guess? Though I use pointers instead of hard numbers, so I don't really think this is mandatory so long as it is restricted enough it isn't bullshit.

Rule 4: A game master MUST pay attention to his players!

If a game master doesn’t listen to the players he’s running the game for he is a failure as a GM plain and simple and shouldn’t be running a game.

I do listen to them, though I need to update their profiles due to an overhaul I did on the system. I'll get on with that though, as well as making the timelines connect so that the players can finally interact in a more active way.

Rule 5: Have fun

Seriously if as a game master you can’t manage to make the game fun for your players you’re doing it wrong

Oh yes we're having loads of fun, which is the most important thing.

Erlkonig, speaking his thoughts on Notes RP.

[SeiKeo]

Erlkonig, speaking his thoughts on Notes RP.

OBJECTION! That was Theo, I was planning to be all Grimderp until he showed up!

[Mike1984]

A gamebreaker villain always feels unfair. And the GM has more then enough tools to pull it off believably.

The difference is that a gamebreaker villain is supposed to feel like that. A Xanatos villain is one you should be able to beat but who tricks you into not doing so, so it shouldn't seem unfair. However, a villain like that is prone to the players going horribly off-the-rails and killing them too early, which means that the GM tends to railroad them into being stupid (think Shirou's response to some of Zouken's tricks in HF), which then makes it come across as fair.

Look at every Type Moon villain. None of them are fanwanked powerhouses who can level the entire cast in seconds. But they think, they plan and they are pulled of magnificently. They are beatable and above all, they are human and make mistakes like humans do.

But those aren't RP villains. It's a lot easier to pull off a Xanatos Gambit when you control the Xanatos Suckers as well, because you can guarentee they will actually fall for your trick.