[Hollow Moon] Mahoutsukai no Yoru Translation Project

[Leftovers]

It's only Shirou's magical alignment/magic circuits/"origin" in that sense that's being changed. His actual Origin was Sword all along.

Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

The absoluteness called Origin

If alignment determines the root of one's magic, then even deeper than that, is the origin which determined the root of one's existence. The origin is not only for magi, but is the orientation that all things are born with and it's existence itself is thought absolutely necessary.

Those magi with an origin that is strongly expressed outwardly are sometimes removed from the normal alignments and there are times that the origin itself becomes the alignment. Most of those magi exhibit their talents as extreme specialists.
Because of that, it's said that they can reach higher grounds than normal magi.

Emiya Shirou's origin is "sword" and his alignment as a magus is also "sword". Because he doesn't have one of the five great elements as an alignment, he's not good at magic using the five great elements. In exchange, he can manifest Reality Marble "Unlimited Blade Works."

Other way around. Sword became his origin became his alignment.

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An instance of magi saying "origin" to mean "alignment" is this:

So that leaves only one method open to me.
According to Kiritsugu, every person has at least one form of magic they are fit for.
He said something about drawing out magical energy appropriate to their "origin", but I didn't really understand.
All I know for sure is that even I have some magic I can use, and if I train that magic, I may be able to become like Kiritsugu.
That is why I learned only that magic.

[AAM1232]

I mean origin in that context can easily mean magical alignment, since that's been the standard for the rest of the examples. I'm not sure why that would be as you suggest, since it then runs into the Sakura example which conflicts with other material.

[Leftovers]

The use of "origin" in the context of the section about "that which is deeper than alignment" can only refer to origin in the KnK definition. I realise the chain of causality I posted above is not strictly accurate, as the (pardon the pun) alignment of element and origin results in an over-specialised magus whether or not the origin is what forcibly overwrites the elemental alignment, rather than both changing together. To account for Sakura, consider instead that where a Crest Worm can forcibly change an elemental alignment, Avalon, a Noble Phantasm, effects such change that can affect even the origin - clean-slate-by-fire metaphors included or otherwise, but a gradual process of conversion would explain the implication of "sword is becoming his origin". The alternative is arguing that Shirou's origin was actually the exact specific thing that his alignment would by completely unpredictable circumstances also be atypically changed to.

[AAM1232]

We have 2 separate definitions for Origin (the same word btw being used everywhere, including for Sakura) in 2 different contexts, one of which being anything thaumaturgical/related to magecraft. Most of the Avalon quotes are in that context, Sakura's statement by Rin in HF is in that context, ToM/CM3 about Sakura's magecraft is in that context. But a quote about UBW, a magecraft of Shirou, related to Avalon's effect on Shirou already documented in a similar context, suddenly refers to the first definition than the commonly used second definition for that exact context (being related to magecraft/thaumaturgy). Surely you can see the contradiction here.

[Leftovers]

(the same word btw being used everywhere, including for Sakura)

It isn't. It's used once in what I quoted and once in Sakura vs Rin, with the other mentions speaking of "elements" or "alignment", and even "attribute" to mean "elemental alignment" when Rin visits the worm pit.

one of which being anything thaumaturgical/related to magecraft

All CM3 excerpts are relevant to magecraft.

Most of the Avalon quotes are in that context, Sakura's statement by Rin in HF is in that context, ToM/CM3 about Sakura's magecraft is in that context. But a quote about UBW, a magecraft of Shirou, related to Avalon's effect on Shirou already documented in a similar context, suddenly refers to the first definition than the commonly used second definition for that exact context (being related to magecraft/thaumaturgy). Surely you can see the contradiction here.

Your assumption is that the entire segment about the interaction between origin and a magus' alignment doesn't apply to the specific example it's citing, and then that "Shirou's origin" in the Q&A doesn't actually mean Shirou's origin as explicitly defined in CM3's origin segment, which even distinguishes it from Shirou's alignment, but that it actually refers to Shirou's alignment, with his origin being irrelevant to the Q&A but still being sword because of some completely presumptive reason.

So uh, I don't, not really.

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But hey, "origin" is used in F/SN to also mean "Akasha", so maybe the fanon about his projections being a fragment of the First Magic was right after all.

[AAM1232]

You're stating that his Origin is changing due to Avalon (as that's the only item mentioned to affect anything regarding Shirou's UBW and magecraft), something not noted in the Avalon quotes, which refer to his magic circuits/attribute only. And then arguing that this inconsistency in the usage of Origin and what Avalon changes is more reasonable than the noted consistency of Avalon's effect on Shirou and that he got lucky overall.

So no, I don't see where you're coming from.

[Takashi]

If shirou's origin is "sword" then technically Avalon doesn't need to change his affinity to "sword".
His affinity would be "sword" all along due to his origin

[AAM1232]

Why? Affinity isn't really related to or dependent on Origin (orientation of the person/root of the person's existence).

[vimiani]

New trailer, linked in the OP

[AAM1232]

New trailer, linked in the OP

Sorry if the last few posts have been derailing.

[vimiani]

Sorry if the last few posts have been derailing.

its fine, keeps the thread bumped at least lmao

[JusticeAmongSwords]

Guess this is what happens to the thread when there's nothing else to discuss

It somehow started after my post about "Mahoyo" sequel joke... And now it's about origins and boi Shirou...

Guess that's just about enouth Internet for me for today.

[You]

Why? Affinity isn't really related to or dependent on Origin (orientation of the person/root of the person's existence).

The absoluteness called Origin
If alignment determines the root of one's magic, then even deeper than that, is the origin which determined the root of one's existence. The origin is not only for magi, but is the orientation that all things are born with and it's existence itself is thought absolutely necessary.

Those magi with an origin that is strongly expressed outwardly are sometimes removed from the normal alignments and there are times that the origin itself becomes the alignment. Most of those magi exhibit their talents as extreme specialists.
Because of that, it's said that they can reach higher grounds than normal magi.

.

[Strange_One]

Oy vey.

Guys.

I'll need a keyboard to try and sort through this mess.


Btw, some guy posted the trailer on Reddit and already the OMG ITS DONE posts are gathering

[Takashi]

Which subreddit?

[aldeayeah]

Shirou dying in that fire is more literal than you'd think.

Yes, that was kind of my head canon.

Kid Shirou had a standard Origin, then he died in a fire, and out of the fire came Sword Shirou, now with 100% more Avalon.

[Nikiri]

Oy vey.

Guys.

I'll need a keyboard to try and sort through this mess.


Btw, some guy posted the trailer on Reddit and already the OMG ITS DONE posts are gathering

Which subreddit?

Literally few posts ago SaltyBucket said about adding the trailer onto OP



also, they used wrong Aoko expression in the last scene

(nicely done tho)

[Strange_One]

Several, grand order, mahoyo, TM.

Says trailer is not his so I don't think it's a team member. The lack of info in his posts leading to people thinking is done was why i mentioned it.

[Rokurou]

keep it up guys !

[4digitmen]

also, they used wrong Aoko expression in the last scene

That's because the final release had a different expression at that moment.